@UTF8 @Begin @Languages: eng @Participants: X X Speaker, JUDG JUDGE Speaker, BAIL BAILIFF Speaker, ROSE ROSE Speaker, X_2 X_2 Speaker, X_3 X_3 Speaker, MITC MITCHELL Speaker, MATT MATTHEW Speaker, KARE KAREN Speaker, MARK MARK Speaker, RADI RADIO Environment @Options: CA, caps, bullets @ID: eng|SBCSAE|X|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|JUDG|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|BAIL|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|ROSE|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|X_2|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|X_3|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|MITC|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|MATT|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|KARE|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|MARK|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|RADI|||||Environment||| @Media: 53, audio @Comment: I Will Appeal @Comment: Task-related talk recorded in a small claims court in Santa Barbara, California. This segment consists of a judge pro tem hearing and deciding two cases. *X: (.) &=COUGH . 0_700 *JUDG: (..) Okay 700_3996 the next case will be: uh 3996_5263 Walter Komak versus Rose Black ? 5263_7347 *BAIL: (..) Is this contested ? 7347_15399 *X: No 15399_15876 ⌈ Just wit⌉nesses and case . 15876_17112 *ROSE: ⌊ No ⌋ . 15876_16282 *BAIL: (.) Oh okay . 17112_17684 *X: &=THROAT . 17684_18873 *BAIL: Are you X +/. 18873_19047 *BAIL: Are you the uh (..) plaintiff ? 19047_20720 *ROSE: Yes . 20720_21127 *ROSE: (.) No . 21127_21584 *ROSE: I'm the defendant . 21584_22404 *BAIL: (..) ⌈ Oh ⌉ . 22404_23074 *ROSE: ⌊ But I ⌋ 'm the plaintiff 22827_23812 (.) on the countersuit . 23812_24815 *X: (..) &=THROAT ⌈ &=lengthened ⌉ . 24815_25604 *BAIL: ⌊ Oh ⌋ . 25200_25604 *X: (..) &{l=P Let me have this pen &{l=X for a minute &}l=X . 25604_28026 *X_2: Oh [% laugh] &=in . 28026_28484 *X_3: (..) &=COUGH ⌈ &=lengthened ⌉ . 28484_30656 *X: ⌊ XX ⌋ that's never worked &}l=P . 30263_31371 *X_2: (..) ⌈2 Yeah [% laugh] ⌉2 . 31371_32004 *ROSE: ⌊2 Sign here⌋2: ? 31559_32150 *X: &{l=X Yes &}l=X . 32150_32496 *JUDG: (..) Okay now 32496_51636 this is a case that a v- +/. 51636_53060 *JUDG: originally was filed by Walter Komak 53060_55143 who is now present 55143_55922 ʔuh not present 55922_56843 (..) against Rose Black 56843_58502 (..) u:m 58502_59877 (..) asking for a security deposit 59877_62179 (..) and since he's not he:re 62179_65184 (..) uh 65184_66574 we: will not rule in favor of him 66574_68480 (..) and then there was a cross complaint 68480_70611 (..) defendant's claim 70611_72380 (..) uh: 72380_74131 (..) by uh (.) Rose Black 74131_76939 (..) for five-hundred and thirty-three dollars 76939_79298 (..) balance of rent due 79298_80934 at the end of the lease . 80934_82171 *JUDG: (..) And Miss Black 82171_83081 I presume you're the landlord . 83081_84170 *JUDG: Is that ⌈ correct ⌉ ? 84170_84809 *ROSE: ⌊ Yes ⌋ . 84335_84809 *ROSE: (.) Mh⌈2m ⌉2 . 84809_85300 *JUDG: ⌊2 And ⌋2 was there a uh written agreement 85144_86802 or a uh ⌈3 lease ⌉3 ? 86802_87560 *ROSE: ⌊3 Yes ⌋3 . 87273_87633 *JUDG: (..) Was it a l- +/. 87633_88333 *JUDG: uh month to month 88333_89225 or a uh . 89225_89796 *ROSE: A year . 89796_90382 *JUDG: (.) A one-year lea⌈se ⌉ . 90382_91149 *ROSE: ⌊ O⌋ne year ⌈2 lease ⌉2 . 91069_91683 *JUDG: ⌊2 Let me ⌋2 see that please . 91378_92183 *JUDG: (..) O:kay . 92183_96499 *JUDG: So now: 96499_97439 uh: 97439_97950 how do you arrive at the five thirty-three 97950_100053 you say that they 100053_100883 that Mister Komak owes you . 100883_102072 *ROSE: (..) Uh this was the 102072_103339 (..) u:m 103339_104319 breakdown of the security deposit . 104319_106293 *JUDG: Let me see that please . 106293_107056 *JUDG: (..) So there was original security deposit of eighteen-hundred and seventy-five dolla⌈rs ⌉ . 107056_118335 *ROSE: ⌊ That's ⌋ correct . 118094_118735 *JUDG: (..) And then you did some repairs on uh 118735_122733 reinstalling screen⌈s ⌉ ? 122733_124046 *ROSE: ⌊ R⌋ight . 123913_124230 *JUDG: (..) Okay . 124230_125035 *JUDG: How come they were +/. 125035_125847 *JUDG: it was necessary to do that ? 125847_126857 *ROSE: (..) &=in ʔuh They had removed the screen⌈s ⌉ . 126857_129140 *JUDG: ⌊ Okay ⌋ . 128826_129140 *JUDG: (.) Alright . 129140_129687 *JUDG: (..) And then u:m 129687_131296 (.) they owed some rent . 131296_132177 *JUDG: They were behind in their rent ? 132177_133036 *ROSE: (..) Uh 133036_133539 they were not behind in the rent 133539_134796 (.) the +/. 134796_135123 *ROSE: (.) The lease was terminated 135123_136422 because of their behavior . 136422_137895 *ROSE: (.) They (..) broke (.) uh s- one of the conditions of the lease 137895_140912 which was not to disturb the other tenants there . 140912_143549 *JUDG: (.) O⌈kay ⌉ . 143549_144157 *ROSE: ⌊ So ⌋ I had to give them a three-day notice (.) to leave . 143999_146603 *JUDG: (..) T- uh 146603_147997 three-day notice (.) to: +... 147997_149388 *ROSE: Quit . 149388_149942 *JUDG: (..) Well I know 149942_150679 but 150679_150888 ⌈ normally ⌉ you would give em three-day notice to perform uh . 150888_153139 *ROSE: ⌊ X ⌋ 150888_151239 (..) &{l=X O⌈2kay ⌉2 &}l=X . 153139_154048 *JUDG: ⌊2 One of the ⌋2 covenants 153677_154412 such as ⌈3 uh . 154412_155104 *X: ⌊3 &=THROAT ⌋3 &=lengthened . 154844_155956 *JUDG: keep quiet ⌉3 . 155104_155744 *ROSE: &=laugh &=laugh &=laugh 155956_156500 &=in (.) They were not able to be quiet . 156500_158645 *ROSE: (..) ʔuh ʔuh U⌈:m what ha- ⌉ +... 158645_161316 *JUDG: ⌊ Okay 160797_161119 so ⌋ then they +/. 161119_161732 *JUDG: (..) So then they left within that three days ? 161732_163767 *ROSE: (..) No . 163767_164448 *ROSE: They left a month later . 164448_165580 *ROSE: (.) At the end of June . 165580_166598 *ROSE: (..) They paid the rent for June . 166598_169036 *JUDG: (..) ⌈ Okay ⌉ . 169036_170138 *ROSE: ⌊ and they ⌋ left 169753_170465 uh July first . 170465_171572 *ROSE: And there were two months (.) left (.) of the lease . 171572_174185 *JUDG: ⌈ D- ⌉ +... 174185_174358 *ROSE: ⌊ XX ⌋ . 174185_174423 *JUDG: And rent's uh 174423_175172 thousand uh 175172_176003 (.) ⌈ two-hundred ⌉ +... 176003_176461 *ROSE: ⌊ Twelve ⌋ seventy-⌈2five ⌉2 . 176101_177323 *JUDG: ⌊2 five ⌋2 . 176970_177307 *JUDG: O⌈3kay ⌉3 . 177323_177725 *ROSE: ⌊3 Mhm ⌋3 . 177476_177840 *JUDG: (..) Now 177840_183564 u:m 183564_184034 (..) did you rerent the +/. 184034_185333 *JUDG: rerent the premises . 185333_186318 *ROSE: Yes I did . 186318_187000 *ROSE: As of August twenty-eighth . 187000_188503 *ROSE: (..) So it reduced 188503_192918 uh 192918_193273 that seven-hundred three 193273_194383 to five thirty-three . 194383_195747 *JUDG: (..) Uh: 195747_198091 seven thirty-thr- 198091_198842 I'm not sure wh- where the seven thirty-three comes in . 198842_200612 *ROSE: Seven o three ⌈ was the bal⌉ance that they owed me . 200612_203362 *JUDG: ⌊ Seven o three ⌋ . 201418_202151 *ROSE: (..) after they moved out . 203362_205460 *JUDG: Right . 205460_205713 *JUDG: But there's a credit 205713_206425 because they m- +/. 206425_206948 *JUDG: you ⌈ got ⌉ +... 206948_207425 *ROSE: ⌊ That's ⌋ correct . 207225_207837 *JUDG: Okay . 207837_208200 *JUDG: So you're giving a three-day's uh (..) credit 208200_210491 and ⌈ how much ⌉ is the daily rent ? 210491_211578 *ROSE: ⌊ Mm ⌋ 210564_210794 (..) It was forty-two fifty . 211578_213478 *JUDG: (.) Okay . 213478_214127 *JUDG: So 214127_214519 how much do you say they now owe you ? 214519_215858 *ROSE: (..) Five-hundred and thirty-three ⌈ dollar- ⌉ . 215858_217810 *JUDG: ⌊ &{l=X And I don't &}l=X ⌋ +/. 217500_217810 *JUDG: and that's what you put down ⌈2 on your cross complaint . 217810_219522 *ROSE: ⌊2 That's correct . 218583_219337 *JUDG: I see . 219522_219925 *ROSE: (.) Mhm ⌋2 . 219574_220076 *JUDG: O⌉2kay . 219925_220295 *JUDG: (..) Well that seems uh: 220295_223336 (..) fundamentally fair 223336_224521 and they're not disputing it 224521_225400 so I will grant you your request . 225400_226780 *JUDG: (.) And I will hand back your documents . 226780_228220 *ROSE: Thank you very much . 228220_229351 *ROSE: (..) &{l=P And how do I get them to pay . 229351_237093 *ROSE: (.) &=laugh &=laugh ⌈ &=laugh &}l=P ⌉ . 237093_237845 *BAIL: ⌊ &{l=P Go ⌋ to the small claims court office 237656_239168 they have some paper work &}l=P . 239168_240270 *ROSE: (..) ⌈ &{l=P Thank you &}l=P ⌉ . 240270_241661 *X: ⌊ XXX ⌋ . 241220_241683 *BAIL: (..) &{l=P There's a small-claims advisor that you can ask &}l=P . 242683_245555 *ROSE: &{l=P Thank you &}l=P . 245555_245933 *JUDG: (..) Okay 245933_269382 the next case will be uh 269382_270481 Mitchell Roberts 270481_271331 versus uh Matthew Collins 271331_272731 ABC Builders Interiors ? 272731_274192 *BAIL: (..) This +/. 274192_279359 *BAIL: both sides are here ? 279359_280261 *BAIL: (..) Is this contested ? 280261_282088 *MITC: (..) X . 282088_282834 *BAIL: (..) Who's Mitchell Roberts . 282834_283904 *MITC: Right here . 283904_284265 *BAIL: (.) Okay . 284265_284680 *BAIL: (..) Sit on this side here . 284680_285707 *BAIL: (..) XXX . 285707_293976 *X: (..) &{l=P Sure &}l=P . 293976_295005 *BAIL: (..) Who's the (.) party being s- (..) served . 295005_305146 *BAIL: (.) You are ? 305146_305513 *X: (..) Thank you . 305513_318540 *BAIL: (.) Nice pen . 318540_319087 *BAIL: &{l=X Alright [% laugh] &}l=X . 319087_319387 *JUDG: (..) O:kay 319387_325992 let's see 325992_326328 who's here now . 326328_326732 *JUDG: Mister Roberts ? 326732_327405 *MITC: (..) Right here . 327405_328006 *JUDG: (..) And you brought an action 328006_329633 (.) against uh Matthew Collins 329633_331153 for um 331153_331990 (..) roughly seven-hundred dollars 331990_334340 (..) for labor installing a carpet . 334340_338067 *JUDG: T- uh: 338067_338781 (..) during last uh August to September 338781_342433 (..) okay 342433_346512 and uh: 346512_347293 (.) just tell me about how you arrived at uh this claim . 347293_349594 *MITC: (..) Uh I was called by (..) Matthew here 349594_353723 (..) to: do the job for him . 353723_354960 *MITC: So I went out and looked at the job . 354960_356292 *JUDG: (.) Okay 356292_356654 you run a +/. 356654_356954 *JUDG: you run a (.) a carpet business I ⌈ presume ⌉ ? 356954_358493 *MITC: ⌊ Yes ⌋ . 358150_358452 *MITC: I'm a licensed contractor . 358493_359614 *JUDG: Okay . 359614_360009 *MITC: (..) U:m 360009_361566 the job was out at UCSB 361566_362971 (..) I went and estimated the job for myself 362971_365403 to see if I could take the job 365403_366653 (..) for what he wanted to pay for it 366653_368640 (..) and I let him know that I could not . 368640_370642 *MITC: (..) Do the job . 370642_371560 *MITC: (..) I wouldn't make any money . 371560_373073 *MITC: (..) So uh 373073_375151 (..) upon me (.) telling him that 375151_377254 (..) he offered 377254_378440 (..) to pay (..) my employees 378440_381552 (..) fill out 381552_384195 he had em fill out double-u two forms all of em 384195_386172 (..) and &{l=X he &}l=X paid him 386172_387355 to lessen the burden of payment on me 387355_389155 (..) so that I in turn would make more money off the job . 389155_391683 *MITC: (..) I agreed to that 391683_394148 (..) after about +... 394148_395801 *JUDG: (..) Ca- ʔuh (.) i:s that a normal procedure XX . 395801_398104 *MITC: Not at all . 398104_398675 *MITC: (..) He wanted me to do the job 398675_400413 (..) so he offered to take some of the monitory burden off my back 400413_403566 (..) so that I could do it for the agreed amounts that we were gonna do it on . 403566_406421 *JUDG: (.) So in other words 406421_407062 your +/. 407062_407385 *JUDG: your helpers would really be his employees ⌈ for the purpose ⌉ of this job . 407385_410164 *MITC: ⌊ That's correct ⌋ . 408980_409531 *MITC: He had em all fill out the plo- proper forms . 410164_412195 *JUDG: (..) So then your costs would be reduced there as far as . 412195_415161 *MITC: (.) That's correc⌈t ⌉ . 415161_415712 *JUDG: ⌊ A⌋lright . 415626_415978 *MITC: (..) Uh 415978_417480 (..) I went to receive my check 417480_419480 (..) of which 419480_420810 (..) we had agreed 420810_422007 (.) that he would deduct 422007_423194 (..) the amount (..) of (.) the hourly wage 423194_426584 (..) that ⌈ he was ⌉ +... 426584_428172 *JUDG: ⌊ Was this a⌋greement in writing 427640_428969 or verbal &=ex . 428969_429609 *MITC: (..) Completely verbal . 429609_430784 *MITC: I've been working with him for like six years . 430784_432665 *MITC: (..) Uh 432665_435311 (.) upon a reve- uh +/. 435311_436234 *MITC: uh (..) receiving my check 436234_437835 (..) uh: 437835_439314 (..) for about (..) two and a half weeks of work 439314_441875 (..) approximately between fifty and seventy hours 441875_444364 I was paid three-hundred and sixteen dollars and fifty-one cents . 444364_447073 *MITC: (..) So I approached him with it 447073_449386 (..) and he handed me this yellow piece of paper here 449386_451598 (..) and noted that 451598_453401 (..) what the employees made 453401_455080 (..) a:nd uh 455080_456857 (..) at twenty-six percent less deduction on these two employees . 456857_460217 *MITC: (..) Which was the employer contribution . 460217_462397 *MITC: (..) So I: noted to him that he was supposed to pay that 462397_465534 (..) he said 465534_466272 uh: n- 466272_466966 (..) no 466966_467643 (..) you're gonna pay it . 467643_468844 *MITC: (..) So I said that's not (..) as per our agreement 468844_471613 he said yes it is 471613_472355 he handed me my check 472355_473206 rolled up his window 473206_474025 and drove off . 474025_474678 *MITC: (..) And he's there to state 474678_476732 (.) he's +/. 476732_477186 *MITC: (..) he saw that 477186_478213 and was (.) witness to that . 478213_479227 *MITC: (..) I have ⌈ a letter ⌉ . 479227_480662 *JUDG: ⌊ ʔI don- I don't ⌋ think it's relevant that he rolled up his window and drove off ⌈2 X ⌉2 . 480154_482670 *MITC: ⌊2 We⌋2ll 482396_482747 I know . 482747_483181 *MITC: (.) But 483181_483520 (..) that- +/. 483520_484020 *MITC: that was the end of our thing 484020_484862 I tried to contact him everything 484862_486272 (..) finally I uh (.) contacted my attorney 486272_488537 (..) I'd like to present this letter to you here . 488537_490438 *JUDG: (..) Okay . 490438_490903 *JUDG: If I may look at that . 490903_491511 *JUDG: And 491511_491812 (.) ⌈ have you shown ⌉ that to uh Mister Collins ? 491812_493414 *MITC: ⌊ Yes please ⌋ . 491812_492381 *MITC: Yes . 493414_493653 *MITC: He has +/. 493653_494088 *MITC: (.) he has (..) received (..) a copy of that letter . 494088_496639 *X: (..) &=THROAT . 496639_498520 *JUDG: (..) Now Stu Roberts is an attorney . 498520_506173 *JUDG: Is that correct ? 506173_506690 *MITC: (.) Yes sir . 506690_507216 *JUDG: (..) You're uh . 507216_510331 *MITC: (..) I'm his nephew . 510331_512007 *JUDG: &{l=P You're his nephew &}l=P . 512007_512536 *JUDG: (..) And you're Nick Ro- (.) Roberts' nephew too then . 512536_516387 *MITC: (..) That's correct . 516387_517023 *JUDG: (.) Okay . 517023_517526 *JUDG: (..) So uh your uncle then wrote uh Builders uh a letter 517526_525854 that's what I'm reading now . 525854_526880 *MITC: (..) Yes sir . 526880_527432 *JUDG: (..) Uh I do emphasize that I'm reading it 527432_535418 this is not evidence 535418_536464 this is only y- your story 536464_537950 tha⌈t you've told ⌉ (..) Mister Roberts . 537950_540114 *MITC: ⌊ That's correct ⌋ 538055_538604 (..) That's correct . 540114_540992 *JUDG: &{l=P Okay &}l=P . 540992_541433 *JUDG: (..) &=tsk So really the dispute then boils down to this twenty-six percent . 541433_575322 *MITC: (.) That's it sir . 575322_576074 *JUDG: (..) Okay . 576074_576668 *MITC: (..) That's the reason why I had him (..) fill out that portion of 576668_580952 or he (..) wanted to (..) write those checks . 580952_583532 *MITC: (.) Was so I would save that money 583532_584916 so I would do that job . 584916_585924 *JUDG: (..) Okay . 585924_586652 *MITC: At the end of the job . 586652_587716 *JUDG: (.) Mister Collins I know you're 587716_588970 (..) biting at the bit there 588970_590212 you wanna &=ex say something 590212_591160 so why don't you go ahead . 591160_591783 *MATT: (.) Okay thank you your honor . 591783_592810 *MATT: (..) U:m 592810_593714 (..) uh pretty much &=ex 593714_595971 (.) u:m 595971_596645 (..) what Mitchell has stated is untrue . 596645_599465 *MATT: (..) Mitchell 599465_600417 (..) uh did do some work for me out at the college 600417_603118 we did the Anacapa Residential Hall . 603118_605075 *MATT: (..) A:nd this is a 605075_606780 (..) eight-thousand-yard job 606780_608832 (.) that we did this summer . 608832_609792 *MATT: (..) &=in It required us to 609792_611955 (..) employ 611955_612877 (..) oh five or six crews 612877_615244 (..) uh Mitchell Roberts was one of them that we used 615244_617627 on the job 617627_618279 (..) Uh Mitchell (..) expressed a desire to do the work out there 618279_622231 (..) he expressed 622231_623318 (..) he did not know how to: handle the payroll . 623318_626188 *MATT: (..) Most of the (..) uh contractors here in town 626188_629090 that are independents like Mitchell 629090_630540 (..) don't know how to do prevailing wage ⌈ statements ⌉ . 630540_633501 *X: ⌊ &=THROAT ⌋ . 632862_633568 *MATT: (.) The college is a (..) state-funded uh (..) uh (..) remodel 633568_638807 (..) and on state-funded remodels 638807_640642 we're required 640642_641543 (..) to pay prevailing wages . 641543_643683 *MATT: (..) Uh prevailing wages 643683_645108 (.) that 645108_645787 (..) um 645787_647015 (..) that indicate different (..) levels of agility 647015_650677 (..) of the different men working . 650677_652211 *MATT: (..) And so 652211_653485 (.) uh a lot of the crew:s 653485_654839 (..) uh 654839_656147 (..) like Mitchell 656147_657411 (.) who have (.) people that work (..) under him 657411_659985 (.) around town 659985_660937 in (.) regular situations 660937_662464 (..) come to the people like me 662464_663847 and ask us to do payroll for them . 663847_665299 *MATT: (..) When we do the payroll for them 665299_667388 (..) we state to them up front 667388_669404 (..) that (..) uh 669404_671300 we will pay the payroll 671300_672351 (..) we will make the deductions 672351_674328 (..) and then (.) the employer contribution 674328_677182 (..) which is approximately twenty-six percent 677182_679276 (..) over and above (..) the hourly wage 679276_682886 (..) is also deducted 682886_684526 (..) from (.) the (.) um (..) subcontractor's check . 684526_688163 *JUDG: (.) Now this uh (.) th- twenty-six percent 688163_689818 that'd be (.) be social security 689818_691260 and what else would it include . 691260_692297 *MATT: (..) Um &=ex . 692297_693444 *JUDG: (.) Sorta like um . 693444_694296 *MITC: (..) &{l=X Th⌈at's anything &}l=X above ⌉ that . 694296_695621 *MATT: ⌊ Well you have ⌋ +/. 694627_695307 *MATT: You have . 695621_696073 *X: (..) XXX . 696073_696835 *MATT: (..) you have that +/. 696835_697966 *MATT: (..) I have a breakdown here 697966_699293 of what we paid Mitchell's men . 699293_700643 *JUDG: ⌈ XXXXX ⌉ . 700643_701381 *MATT: ⌊ if you'd like to see that ⌋ . 700666_701620 *JUDG: (..) Okay . 701620_703624 *JUDG: (..) I mean 703624_704462 do +/. 704462_704563 *JUDG: yeah 704563_704819 y- you got a total of uh 704819_705982 (..) seven point six five percent employer contributions on the . 705982_709083 *MATT: (..) Um 709083_710723 (..) that explains it pretty well 710723_712101 there's quite a few deductions 712101_713376 (.) of course- +/. 713376_713821 *MATT: (..) ⌈ X ⌉ . 713821_715100 *JUDG: ⌊ Oh ⌋ and and the oh the +/. 714825_715750 *JUDG: the f- +/. 715750_715908 *JUDG: the annual unemployment insurance 715908_717623 and uh . 717623_718076 *MATT: Right . 718076_718447 *JUDG: Oka⌈y ⌉ . 718447_718883 *MATT: ⌊ wor⌋ker's compensatio⌈2n . 718773_719866 *JUDG: ⌊2 Right ⌋2 . 719754_720055 *MATT: F⌉2UDA (.) FICA 719866_720719 et cetera . 720719_721186 *MATT: (..) Now that's 721186_722467 (..) u:m 722467_723419 (..) in any payroll deduction situation 723419_726795 you have 726795_727323 (..) the employee contribution 727323_729524 (..) which is deducted from the employee's (..) wages 729524_733285 gross wages 733285_734250 (.) and then you have the employer's (..) contribution 734250_737020 ⌈ which is over and ⌉ above that . 737020_737934 *X: ⌊ &=THROAT ⌋ . 737020_737494 *MATT: (..) Which the employer has to pay . 737934_740787 *MATT: (..) Now the agreement that we had made 740787_742440 (..) with a:ll of the (..) um 742440_744892 (..) subcontractors 744892_746211 uh 746211_746711 (..) Mark Preston's sitting here 746711_748356 (..) which is testifying for Mitch Roberts 748356_750194 (..) also did work for me 750194_751597 (..) and he was treated the same way . 751597_753201 *MATT: We (.) paid him 753201_754152 (..) we took his deductions out 754152_756302 (..) as well as (..) that 756302_758736 (..) and 758736_759337 so we 759337_759840 uh did that 759840_760365 (..) with everybody . 760365_761365 *JUDG: (..) Okay wai- ʔuh +/. 761365_762029 *JUDG: I wanna make sure now . 762029_763031 *JUDG: ʔuh That would be fine if that was the agreement . 763031_765073 *JUDG: Now you say that the w- +/. 765073_765986 *JUDG: you under- +/. 765986_766436 *JUDG: you explained that to Mister Roberts ? 766436_767811 *MATT: (..) Uh yes sir . 767811_768911 *MATT: (.) Before he went to work . 768911_769997 *JUDG: (.) Okay . 769997_770635 *JUDG: Mister Roberts 770635_771147 did you have any conversations . 771147_772422 *MITC: (..) Absolute⌈ly not ⌉ . 772422_773525 *JUDG: ⌊ with Matthew ⌋ Collins about that . 773185_774186 *MITC: (..) The reason 774186_775064 (..) and I stress this . 775064_776640 *MITC: And I don't like to waste the court's time . 776640_778174 *MITC: (..) But 778174_779500 (..) my (..) total 779500_781725 I agree +/. 781725_782153 *MITC: &{l=X If &}l=X whatever he just said right there was true 782153_784007 with (..) withholding and every⌈thing ⌉ . 784007_785585 *JUDG: ⌊ R⌋ight I'm +... 785423_785937 *MITC: (..) That was fine . 785937_786686 *JUDG: (..) It really boils ⌈ down ⌉ . 786686_788151 *MITC: ⌊ But ⌋ +... 787850_788151 *JUDG: what- what was the discussion the agreement regarding this . 788151_790625 *MITC: (..) The dis⌈cussion ⌉ . 790625_791528 *JUDG: ⌊ X ⌋ . 791142_791464 *MITC: The agreement would be 791528_792272 that he would pay everything . 792272_793374 *MITC: (..) So that ⌈ I wouldn't ⌉ +... 793374_794740 *JUDG: ⌊ Did he say eve⌋rything . 794182_795152 *MITC: Y- everything . 795152_795796 *MITC: (..) So that I wouldn't end up making 795796_797520 after fifty hou- fifty hours work 797520_799123 which I knew I was gonna make 799123_800151 when I had to &{l=X play &}l=X my em- part of an employer contribution 800151_802870 (..) I have my own payroll service . 802870_804512 *MITC: They do all that for me 804512_805360 and they're very familiar with all (..) types of pay . 805360_807817 *MITC: (..) This is why I didn't wanna take the job to begin with . 807817_810586 *JUDG: (..) Uh ⌈ I can u- +... 810586_811560 *MITC: ⌊ He in turn ⌋ +... 811177_811780 *JUDG: I can ⌉ appreciate that . 811560_812437 *JUDG: (.) ⌈2 now ⌉2 . 812437_812886 *MITC: ⌊2 Okay ⌋2 . 812553_812879 *JUDG: (.) Mister Collins says 812886_814117 (..) he denies that you said 814117_815981 (..) everything . 815981_817292 *JUDG: Right ? 817292_817580 *JUDG: ⌈ &{l=X He just &}l=X ⌉ +... 817580_817980 *MITC: ⌊ I wouldn't⌋'ve +/. 817642_818130 *MITC: I wouldn't⌈2've done it ⌉2 . 818130_818814 *MATT: ⌊2 Well ⌋2 . 818411_818831 *JUDG: (..) You have a different (.) story 818831_820405 on what (.) the agreement was . 820405_821759 *MATT: (.) Right . 821759_822009 *MATT: (..) U:m 822009_823013 (.) uh Karen here 823013_824104 (..) uh 824104_825008 does all the payroll 825008_825921 a:nd (.) uh 825921_827016 (..) she's here to testify about a conversation 827016_829270 (..) that (.) her and Mitchell had 829270_831339 in our office 831339_832318 about this very thing 832318_833354 and I'd ⌈ like to ⌉ +... 833354_834256 *JUDG: ⌊ Before ⌋ or after the: agreement was entered into . 833794_836182 *MATT: (.) After the agreement was entered into 836182_837976 (..) he had been on the job for about a week or so 837976_840266 (..) and 840266_841286 it was time 841286_842019 (..) I believe for the- 842019_843000 (..) first or second pay (..) period for his men 843000_846451 (..) Uh he came into the office 846451_848534 and had a conversation with Karen 848534_849959 (..) about 849959_850735 (..) A the payroll 850735_851987 (..) and B this twenty-six percent that we're talking about . 851987_854679 *MATT: And ⌈ she'd be hap⌉py to tell you +... 854679_856007 *JUDG: ⌊ Okay ma'am ⌋ 854866_855443 (.) why don't you please 856007_856783 (.) explain the: conversation you had with Mister Roberts . 856783_858735 *KARE: (..) Okay . 858735_859950 *KARE: U:m 859950_860545 he was +/. 860545_861172 *KARE: (..) we were going over the wages for Phil Nigel 861172_863709 (.) who was one of the (.) gentlemen on there 863709_865496 (..) as to (.) how much (.) Phil was to get 865496_868266 (..) for the job . 868266_869219 *KARE: (.) On an hourly basis . 869219_870571 *KARE: (..) A:nd 870571_871447 he had mentioned to me 871447_872513 that he was wanting him to get ex amount 872513_874363 &=in and I said okay 874363_875481 if it's ex amount to Phil 875481_876759 then 876759_877120 plus twenty-six percent means 877120_878383 I take out (..) this amount 878383_880511 (..) from your check . 880511_881691 *KARE: (..) And he goes oh . 881691_882668 *KARE: Well then (.) no 882668_883396 I don't wanna have the 883396_884325 you know 884325_884563 take out that much . 884563_885528 *KARE: &=in So: we were going back and forth with the figures 885528_888162 and so finally 888162_889091 (..) this is (.) the: 889091_890998 (..) uh: 890998_892224 (..) wage that we came up with 892224_894339 which was thirteen ⌊ fifty to ⌋ Phil . 894339_896279 *X: ⌊ &=THROAT ⌋ . 895277_895791 *KARE: (..) And then have seventeen dollars (.) an hour 896279_898940 taken out of Mitch (..) 's check . 898940_901055 *KARE: (..) Mitch Roberts' check . 901055_902231 *KARE: (..) And this is the &=in note that I'd written down on that . 902231_906427 *KARE: A:nd then 906427_907151 (..) you can see that thirteen fifty plus twenty-six percent 907151_910141 which is three fifty-one 910141_911505 &=in would actually equal to seventeen o one 911505_913560 ⌈ and I said . 913560_914062 *MATT: ⌊ Why don't you show him the note ⌋ . 913560_914483 *KARE: (.) You know ⌉ 914062_914483 (..) just the seventeen was ⌈2 fine ⌉2 . 914483_916411 *JUDG: ⌊2 &{l=X Oh this &}l=X ⌋2 +/. 916112_916693 *JUDG: (..) So 916693_917733 d- did you have ⌈ that conver⌉sation . 917733_918911 *MITC: ⌊ I don't ⌋ +/. 918199_918532 *MITC: (..) I had that perfect conversation with her . 918911_921042 *MITC: (.) And that's very true 921042_922004 exactly what you said . 922004_922861 *MITC: (..) But she never told me anything about 922861_924764 (..) this twenty-six percent 924764_926067 that was coming a- come out of my check . 926067_927618 *MITC: (..) Why- +/. 927618_928225 *MITC: (.) It's +... 928225_928590 *X: (..) go ahead . 928590_929557 *MARK: (..) I was offered 929557_930707 Matthew offered me 930707_931364 I'm Mark Preston 931364_932075 I'm a licensed contractor also 932075_933485 and Matthew &=in offered me the same (..) situation . 933485_936140 *MARK: (..) And it was my understanding 936140_938142 (..) that he was to pay (..) everything . 938142_940153 *MARK: Supply the glue 940153_941201 (..) &=tsk &=in supply +/. 941201_943022 *MARK: and take care of my guys 943022_944143 and make the payroll 944143_945032 (.) and pay all of the employer's stuff . 945032_947032 *MARK: (..) If you're an employer 947032_948728 you gotta pay the stuff . 948728_949760 *MARK: (.) You gotta pay all the extra thing⌈s ⌉ . 949760_951188 *JUDG: ⌊ But ⌋ 951023_951185 you don't have any +/. 951188_952242 *JUDG: (..) y- ⌈ you ⌉ can't testify . 952242_953974 *X: ⌊ &=COUGH ⌋ . 953107_953259 *JUDG: unless I'm wrong 953974_954620 about the conversation those two had . 954620_956020 *JUDG: You weren't there . 956020_956598 *JUDG: Is that correc⌈t ⌉ ? 956598_957211 *MARK: ⌊ I ⌋ know for a fact that 957082_958960 (..) ⌈2 Mitch was mak- ⌉2 +... 958960_960272 *MATT: ⌊2 He was not there ⌋2 . 959462_960217 *MARK: M- and- +/. 960272_960676 *MARK: he just mentioned that he +/. 960676_961926 *MARK: &=in Matthew just mentioned that he deducted the same out of my check ? 961926_964980 *MARK: (..) &{l=MRC He did not &}l=MRC . 964980_966277 *MARK: I worked strictly by the yard 966277_967660 and I paid my people . 967660_968804 *MARK: (.) ⌈ Prevailing wages ⌉ . 968804_969957 *JUDG: ⌊ Well any agreement he had ⌋ with you is not relevant to the agreement he had with Mister Roberts . 968975_972228 *MARK: Well 972228_972631 ʔuhʔuh I saw the people's checks 972631_974383 (..) a:nd 974383_975435 (..) I'm just drawing a pi- 975435_976757 verify what Mitch said . 976757_977895 *MARK: (..) H- Ma- Mister Collins was supposed to pay (..) everything . 977895_982136 *MITC: (..) He approached him ⌈ with the same ⌉ . 982136_983950 *MARK: ⌊ Fir- f- f- ⌋ +/. 983316_983950 *MARK: with the exact same thing 983950_985075 &=in And he d- +/. 985075_985787 *MARK: Jerry Stillman he did the same thing 985787_987251 he did the same thing with Marco Villaremo . 987251_988997 *MARK: (..) Who're all licensed contractors . 988997_990851 *JUDG: (..) But I still +/. 990851_992247 *JUDG: I still don't ⌈ know ⌉ +... 992247_993198 *MARK: ⌊ &=THROAT ⌋ . 992822_993198 *JUDG: that may have been on other cases 993198_994364 the question is 994364_994885 did he do it in this case . 994885_996010 *MITC: (.) He +/. 996010_996461 *MITC: (.) it would be 996461_997163 (..) if &{l=X it may please you &}l=X 997163_999365 (..) ʔuh 999365_1000604 (.) the whole reason why I'm here . 1000604_1002280 *MITC: (..) Is because he took that twenty-six percent out 1002280_1004684 that he told me he wasn't gonna take 1004684_1006125 (..) he used it as 1006125_1007276 (.) more or less bait me to do the job 1007276_1008955 (..) and went ahead and withheld it from me . 1008955_1010704 *MITC: (..) Without saying a word to it 1010704_1012293 I had nothing 1012293_1013085 (.) I was expecting to make about a thousand dollars on the job . 1013085_1015616 *JUDG: I understand that . 1015616_1016228 *MITC: (..) And 1016228_1016887 (.) when he wrote my check . 1016887_1018240 *MITC: (..) He wrote my check to me 1018240_1019973 (..) handed it to me through a window 1019973_1021823 (..) says that's the way it is 1021823_1023454 (..) and th- +/. 1023454_1024017 *MITC: and and you know +/. 1024017_1024496 *MITC: it wasn't +/. 1024496_1025002 *MITC: and- he ʔuh totally evaded me 1025002_1026479 (.) he has to this day evaded me . 1026479_1028080 *JUDG: (.) Mister Roberts . 1028080_1028682 *JUDG: (.) That's beside the point . 1028682_1029633 *JUDG: What I'm trying to ʔuh +/. 1029633_1030580 *JUDG: (..) We have to really hone in on- 1030580_1032026 what was the agreement . 1032026_1032880 *JUDG: Not how he ⌈ paid you . 1032880_1033917 *MITC: ⌊ The agreement was . 1033415_1034440 *JUDG: If he +... 1033917_1034419 *MITC: (.) That ⌋ . 1034440_1034794 *JUDG: (.) You know ⌉ 1034419_1034820 I don't care if he folded an airplane and ma- +/. 1034820_1036353 *JUDG: and sailed ⌈ it through the air ⌉ . 1036353_1037356 *MITC: ⌊ He would pay ⌋ all my employees . 1036761_1038228 *MITC: That was the agreement . 1038228_1039028 *MITC: (..) ⌈ Everything ⌉ . 1039028_1040079 *JUDG: ⌊ But he di- ⌋ +/. 1039692_1040056 *JUDG: he disputes that . 1040056_1040906 *MITC: (..) Well 1040906_1041364 I understand that . 1041364_1042056 *MITC: That's why we're here your honor . 1042056_1043108 *JUDG: (.) &{l=WH Okay &}l=WH . 1043108_1043667 *JUDG: (..) But 1043667_1044170 you're the plaintiff . 1044170_1044946 *JUDG: You have the burden of proving your case . 1044946_1046436 *JUDG: That's the problem I have is 1046436_1047609 (..) you've gotta convince me by a preponderance of evidence 1047609_1050504 that what you're saying is true . 1050504_1051667 *MITC: (..) ⌈ Well then if ⌉ +... 1051667_1052806 *JUDG: ⌊ More- +/. 1052292_1052561 *JUDG: more li⌋kely than not . 1052561_1053607 *JUDG: (.) Now you say one thing 1053607_1054524 and he says another . 1054524_1055526 *MITC: (..) Then +/. 1055526_1056326 *MITC: when- when a person (.) fills out 1056326_1058053 or has other employees fill out the double-u two forms and everything 1058053_1060856 (..) why would I become liable 1060856_1062580 (..) for that contribution . 1062580_1063831 *MITC: When h- (.) when he in fact by law 1063831_1065459 is now employing those employees . 1065459_1067359 *MITC: (..) He's the employer . 1067359_1068911 *MITC: (..) I am doing nothing . 1068911_1070781 *MITC: (..) &=in Isn't there a law that states that fact ? 1070781_1074560 *MITC: (..) When you have 1074560_1075477 (..) uh people 1075477_1076893 (..) work for you 1076893_1077771 and fill out specific forms to the state 1077771_1079957 (..) ⌈ stating that ⌉ ? 1079957_1080847 *JUDG: ⌊ Tell me again ⌋ . 1080331_1080845 *JUDG: Wh- +/. 1080847_1080994 *JUDG: what were the +/. 1080994_1081364 *JUDG: what was the agreement again ? 1081364_1082207 *JUDG: Go- go through the +/. 1082207_1082994 *JUDG: (.) y- conversation as you saw it . 1082994_1084499 *MITC: (..) Conversation was 1084499_1086291 Mitch 1086291_1086618 if you do this job 1086618_1087676 (..) I'll go ahead and pay all your employees 1087676_1089930 and you in turn will be able to pa- make more money . 1089930_1091902 *JUDG: (..) That was pretty much it . 1091902_1093228 *MITC: (..) That's it . 1093228_1093940 *MITC: (..) That's to the point . 1093940_1094995 *JUDG: Oh ⌈ so he in ef⌉fect said . 1094995_1096213 *MITC: ⌊ And that's it ⌋ . 1095180_1095787 *JUDG: I will pay your employ⌈2ees ⌉2 . 1096213_1097355 *MITC: ⌊2 That⌋2's correct . 1097163_1097928 *MITC: (..) And he did sir . 1097928_1099007 *MITC: (..) And then when it came to the employer contribution 1099007_1101561 (..) without my knowledge or anything 1101561_1103239 until I received this check 1103239_1104594 (..) he just yanked that right out of my check . 1104594_1106740 *JUDG: (..) And Mister Collins ʔuh 1106740_1108036 (..) that conv- +/. 1108036_1108903 *JUDG: tell me about the conversation (.) you believe (.) happened . 1108903_1111001 *MATT: (..) Well 1111001_1111786 (..) u:m 1111786_1112461 (..) Mitch and I 1112461_1114496 (.) u:m 1114496_1114966 Mitch had come to me and said he would do the work out there 1114966_1117076 (..) but he wanted to do the work under the basis that I paid his men 1117076_1120532 (..) and I told him about 1120532_1122512 (..) what I said earlier here . 1122512_1124049 *JUDG: (.) About the twenty-six percent ? 1124049_1125278 *MATT: Yes . 1125278_1125599 *JUDG: That was mentioned to him . 1125599_1126436 *KARE: ⌈ Always ⌉ . 1126436_1127141 *MATT: ⌊ Oh yes ⌋ . 1126718_1127369 *MATT: Uh 1127369_1127604 always 1127604_1128084 it was mentioned with Karen here 1128084_1129406 on her note of nine two ninety-three 1129406_1131048 that she wrote down her note that she talked with him . 1131048_1132753 *RADI: &{l=X Twelve fourteen &}l=X . 1132753_1133518 *MATT: (..) and (.) at (.) uh 1133518_1134892 at every juncture . 1134892_1135891 *MATT: (..) He was +/. 1135891_1136578 *MATT: (..) uh made aware of 1136578_1137896 (..) the: uh 1137896_1139211 the contributions 1139211_1140386 (..) were made by the employer . 1140386_1141739 *MATT: These were his men 1141739_1142692 (.) and we were doing a service for him 1142692_1144713 (..) under this agreement that we had between us . 1144713_1146947 *JUDG: (.) Now just +/. 1146947_1147442 *JUDG: ʔuh just seems from a logical standpoint 1147442_1148933 I wasn't there obviously 1148933_1149785 it seems like if you had said that to him 1149785_1151160 he would've said wait a minute 1151160_1152115 it's not worth it to me . 1152115_1153010 *MITC: (..) That's cor⌈rect ⌉ . 1153010_1153740 *JUDG: ⌊ Would you ⌋ +/. 1153521_1153859 *JUDG: Would you think he would say that . 1153859_1155025 *MATT: Yes 1155025_1155227 I would think he would . 1155227_1155981 *MATT: (..) ⌈ Why would he ⌉ do the work . 1155981_1157034 *JUDG: ⌊ Okay ⌋ . 1156185_1156493 *MITC: (..) So you would trick me into doing it . 1157034_1159944 *MITC: (..) ⌈ Tho- ⌉ +... 1159944_1161146 *JUDG: ⌊ Well ⌋ not if he 1160950_1161707 not if he said ⌈2 to you ⌉2 . 1161707_1162788 *MITC: ⌊2 No ⌋2 1162398_1162718 but ⌈3 (.) then . 1162718_1163341 *MATT: ⌊3 &=laugh (.) &=laugh &=laugh ⌋3 . 1162914_1163828 *MITC: Then ⌉3 1163593_1163830 with all my +/. 1163830_1164580 *MITC: (.) with my (.) fourteen years experience . 1164580_1166438 *MITC: Why would I do that amount (.) amount of work 1166438_1168243 and knowingly for over fifty hours of work . 1168243_1170045 *JUDG: (..) Well I ⌈ XX ⌉ +... 1170045_1171040 *MITC: ⌊ know I was ⌋ gonna take him three hundred and six⌈2teen dollars to do it ⌉2 . 1170640_1172950 *JUDG: ⌊2 That may be a like a ⌋2 buyer's remorse 1172172_1173693 so I +/. 1173693_1173884 *JUDG: ⌈ &{l=X uh I don't &}l=X ⌉ +... 1173884_1174587 *MITC: ⌊ Well tha⌋t's not +/. 1174180_1174883 *MITC: I have fourteen years experience in the trade . 1174883_1176721 *MITC: That's why I turned the d- (.) the job down to begin with . 1176721_1178720 *MITC: &{l=X Without &}l=X doing any work at all . 1178720_1179862 *JUDG: (..) Well 1179862_1183845 I'll tell you . 1183845_1184232 *JUDG: ʔuh if Mister Roberts' testimony is correct he should win 1184232_1186557 and Mister Collins' testimony is correct then he should prevail . 1186557_1188999 *MITC: And I agree with you . 1188999_1189777 *JUDG: (..) &=in ⌈ Now- ⌉ +... 1189777_1190800 *MITC: ⌊ But the ⌋ fact remains 1190500_1191500 that I would not have done the work 1191500_1192895 (.) for this amount of money . 1192895_1193855 *MITC: (..) That's why I turned the job down to begin with . 1193855_1196110 *MITC: (..) That's why I'm here in the court today 1196110_1197920 to make (.) the court decide . 1197920_1199324 *MITC: (..) It shouldn't +/. 1199324_1200124 *MITC: (.) ⌈ It shouldn't be legal for guys ⌉ to do ⌈2 this ⌉2 . 1200124_1202213 *JUDG: ⌊ Well I'm gonna make +/. 1200388_1201297 *JUDG: (.) ʔuh ⌋ +/. 1201297_1201751 *JUDG: ⌊2 I⌋2'm gonna make 1202097_1202804 uh: 1202804_1203328 in my mind 1203328_1204222 a bad decision today . 1204222_1205631 *JUDG: (..) Now 1205631_1207562 you both seem very truthful and honest . 1207562_1209198 *JUDG: (..) I wasn't there . 1209198_1210854 *MITC: (..) But 1210854_1211229 I'm the one that's bearing the burden of this ⌈ (.) monetary amount ⌉ . 1211229_1214077 *JUDG: ⌊ you have &{l=X to bear the burden ʔuh &}l=X ⌋ proving it 1212906_1214562 but . 1214562_1214878 *MITC: (..) I understand that . 1214878_1217067 *JUDG: ʔuh I'm gonna award 1217067_1218279 u:m 1218279_1218980 (..) Mister Roberts 1218980_1220540 (..) three-hundred fifty dollars . 1220540_1223445 *JUDG: (..) Approximately half . 1223445_1225001 *JUDG: (..) Now Mister Collins may not like that . 1225001_1228411 *JUDG: (..) &{l=X now y- &}l=X +/. 1228411_1229016 *JUDG: (.) if he doesn't like it 1229016_1229878 then he can go ahead appeal it across the street superior court . 1229878_1232237 *JUDG: (..) Running the risk that he might face 1232237_1233980 (..) the full amount of seven-hundred and four dollar⌈s ⌉ . 1233980_1236488 *MATT: ⌊ I ⌋ will appeal . 1236338_1237054 *JUDG: (..) Okay [% laugh] . 1237054_1237962 *JUDG: (..) But I'm going to get it +/. 1237962_1239555 *JUDG: and ʔuh award mister Roberts 1239555_1240738 ʔuh three-hundred and fifty dollars 1240738_1241941 (..) a:nd if neither party is happy 1241941_1244143 maybe there's an old saying in court that 1244143_1245744 (.) both parties are unhappy 1245744_1246852 the judge made a good decision . 1246852_1247911 *JUDG: (..) So . 1247911_1249718 *MATT: (..) ⌈ Thank you your honor ⌉ . 1249718_1250881 *JUDG: ⌊ &{l=X Make it &}l=X for ⌋ the: uh: 1250261_1251536 (..) plaintiff of thr⌈2ee-fifty . 1251536_1253041 *X: ⌊2 There's some . 1252731_1253218 *JUDG: And I will allow the court costs of twenty ⌉2 dollars and thirty cents . 1253041_1255584 *X: I think there's some papers up there ⌋2 . 1253218_1254474 *MITC: (..) Thank you your honor . 1255584_1258404 *X: XXX 1258404_1258973 (..) . 1258973_1259473 @End