0.000 1.993 CAM: @@@ .. @@ (H)= 1.993 2.343 No=, 2.343 2.858 he doesn't -- 2.858 4.622 .. He [doesn't] .. ca=ll really, 3.252 3.561 LAJUAN: [(THROAT)] 4.622 5.276 CAM: .. I don't -- 5.276 7.155 (H) The only thing is like at at ho=me, 7.155 9.461 sometimes he likes to sit by me and [stuff like], 9.067 10.139 LAJUAN: [(TSK) (H)] I forgot to tell you, 10.139 11.333 look for the house with the reindeer. 11.333 13.749 You could find it a lot easier if you couldn't remember where we were. 13.749 14.214 CAM: ? 13.981 15.059 LAJUAN: [(H) <@ (Hx) @>] 14.537 15.804 CAM: .. I always] remember , 15.804 17.138 LAJUAN: .. Once you get [2to it2], 16.604 17.392 CAM: [2Once I2] see it, 17.392 17.705 I know, 17.705 18.263 oh that's it. 18.263 19.325 LAJUAN: ... Yeah, 19.325 20.384 CAM: I'll look at some of the houses, 20.384 20.788 I'm like ooh, 20.788 21.256 is it this one, 21.256 21.839 is this one it, 21.839 22.642 .. and then I just- -- 22.642 23.059 Oh no, 23.059 23.566 that's the one. 23.566 24.355 LAJUAN: .. (H) Yeah, 24.355 25.607 the one with the two reindeer that, 25.607 28.563 Mark and Tim last year took and put on top of each other as if they were humping. 28.563 29.029 I was like- . 29.029 30.726 .. (H) .. <@ Neighbors are gonna see this @>, 30.726 32.017 (H) [so I went out in the] morning I'm like, 30.865 31.592 CAM: [Oh <% Go=d %>]. 32.017 32.328 LAJUAN: , 32.328 33.475 .. so I get out of my car, 33.475 35.038 stop in the driveway @@@, 35.038 36.317 . 36.317 36.708 I was like, 36.708 38.018 (H) I'll just kill them. 38.018 39.253 CAM: Those naughty boys. 39.253 40.489 LAJUAN: .. (H) But um, 40.489 41.507 ... mm, 41.507 42.102 .. no, 42.102 42.766 he just -- 42.766 44.340 ... (H) He he, 44.340 46.611 .. he's become mo=re .. atta=ched. 46.611 48.084 ... and, 48.084 50.363 .. uh- I think a lot of it is because a lot of his, 50.363 51.843 .. friends have now gotten married, 51.843 52.507 and have children, 52.507 54.436 (H) and he doesn't .. do as much with them. 54.436 56.189 ... And I think that's why, 56.189 58.261 but he has gotten so= att[ached] to me and it, 57.342 57.710 CAM: [(THROAT)] 58.261 60.754 LAJUAN: (H) .. I've always been very indepe=ndent, 60.754 63.341 .. (H) and a lot of it had to do with like me growing up the way I did, 63.341 64.204 with my .. my um, 64.204 65.202 .. my mother dying, 65.202 66.040 CAM: ... Mhm, 66.040 66.398 LAJUAN: younger, 66.398 67.510 and then living with my one aunt, 67.510 69.308 and then my I- aunt died when I was twelve, 69.308 70.821 (H) and then moving to another aunt, 70.821 72.033 which was moving up he=re, 72.033 73.004 (H) and, 73.004 75.066 .. I I've always had to go ba=ck and forth, 75.066 76.263 I've always traveled on my own, 76.263 77.761 I've always flown everywhere by myself, 77.761 78.616 (H) .. uh, 78.616 80.195 .. I've always done everything. 80.195 81.401 I've had to deal with my fa=ther, 81.401 82.527 I- I'd listen to my sister, 82.527 84.296 when my nephew .. (H) started college, 84.296 85.140 how she was saying, 85.140 88.355 (H) she filled out all of his applications for where he was go=ing and, 88.355 92.229 (H) she did all of these things when he had to apply for a scholarship or whatever, 92.229 93.591 (H) she filled out everything, 93.591 94.231 and I'm like, 94.231 94.808 (H) .. (Hx) 94.808 96.187 I did it by myse=lf, 96.187 97.372 (H) you read the form, 97.372 98.509 .. and you fill it out. 98.509 99.346 CAM: .. [Wo=w], 98.808 100.240 LAJUAN: [No one] did it for me=, 100.240 100.974 (H) .. you know, 100.974 103.104 and I was very .. % much, 103.104 104.641 .. whatever I needed, 104.641 106.968 (H) I I got my money from my fa=ther, 106.968 108.102 he paid for schoo=l, 108.102 108.872 (H) but, 108.872 110.191 I did everything on my own. 110.191 112.040 .. I I didn't ha=ve anyone. 112.040 113.673 CAM: (TSK) See my parents weren't very=, 113.673 114.332 I [don't know]. 113.985 114.368 LAJUAN: [(THROAT)] 114.368 116.473 CAM: .. They're not .. extremely educated, 116.473 117.086 and they're not, 117.086 118.474 .. really on top of things, 118.474 120.348 (H) and so [when it] came to things like that, 119.276 119.562 LAJUAN: [(THROAT)] 120.348 121.609 CAM: they w=ouldn't know how to help me. 121.609 123.168 .. @= @[@@ (H)] 122.530 123.173 LAJUAN: [Really], 123.173 123.457 CAM: Yeah, 123.457 123.930 they wouldn't -- 123.930 125.282 ... I mean they had no clue, 125.282 127.486 they didn't give me any suggestions of where to go to school, 127.486 127.852 they said, 127.852 129.099 (H) oh yeah go to school, 129.099 129.837 we'll pay for it. 129.837 131.043 (H) We want you to go to school. 131.043 132.410 But they had no idea of, 132.410 132.726 you know, 132.726 133.441 what's a good school, 133.441 134.429 what's a bad school=, 134.429 134.780 you know, 134.780 136.196 [any] type of di[2rection? 134.780 135.309 LAJUAN: [(H)] 135.613 135.975 [2Se- -- 136.196 137.424 % % Yeah2], 136.196 137.424 CAM: They didn't give me anything like that2]. 137.424 140.001 LAJUAN: and see I f=eel [3that's3] one of the biggest setbacks, 138.445 138.847 CAM: [3(THROAT)3] 140.001 143.145 LAJUAN: I I see this with (H) with bla=ck .. youths today, 143.145 143.657 is that, 143.657 146.507 (H) .. becau=se your generations in the pa=st, 146.507 147.808 were not educated, 147.808 148.569 CAM: .. [Mm=]. 148.085 151.175 LAJUAN: [(H)] you have a harder time deciding on what's a good school, 151.175 153.299 (H) what's a good curriculum for you to ta=ke, 153.299 156.248 .. (H) your your parents aren't able to talk to you about it. 156.248 157.597 (H) W- just as you were saying, 157.597 158.376 even though you're not black, 158.376 159.300 but you were just saying that, 159.300 161.857 (H) but black children have that .. even more so. 161.857 162.240 CAM: Right. 162.240 162.794 LAJUAN: Because you har- -- 162.794 166.032 You're you're more likely .. not to be ha- come from educated parents. 166.032 167.777 (H) Whereas I came from an educated family, 167.777 168.636 .. it was just the fact, 168.636 171.046 (H) .. they made us do everything on our ow=n. 171.046 172.101 .. (H) [And], 171.571 172.101 CAM: [Mm]. 172.101 172.543 LAJUAN: but, 172.543 174.487 .. % .. black people also=, 174.487 175.897 th- those that have more, 175.897 177.433 tried to teach you to be stro=nger. 177.433 180.629 (H) But I think they instilled s- tried m- tried to make me so strong, 180.629 181.871 (H) that they forgo=t, 181.871 183.489 ... that I was a person. 183.489 184.054 And I mean like, 184.054 186.002 I I often feel like at times that, 186.002 189.224 (H) .. (TSK) and maybe it's the gayness coming out in me but, 189.224 191.124 ... (H) I don't like it, 191.124 192.066 like and when I was ho=me, 192.066 193.271 .. just went home to Indiana. 193.271 195.016 (H) I went to hug my sister, 195.016 198.072 .. and I still feel that she finds a coldness in hugging. 198.072 199.297 CAM: ... She doesn't like to hug. 199.297 200.056 LAJUAN: .. (H)= No. 200.056 201.580 My family's not very much h=ugging. 201.580 201.894 CAM: .. Oh. 201.894 202.149 LAJUAN: I mean, 202.149 203.115 my whole life, 203.115 204.471 .. we've never been very, 204.471 205.436 you greet someone, 205.436 206.226 you don't s- hug them. 206.226 206.897 You're just like , 206.897 207.638 how are you, 207.638 209.833 ... and even like male female. 209.833 210.862 (H) You don't do it. 210.862 214.661 CAM: ... See uh my .. [my] mother was like that more so. 212.541 213.006 LAJUAN: [(THROAT)] 214.661 216.964 CAM: (H) And then my f=ather was .. d=ifferent. 216.964 218.059 LAJUAN: .. Very emotional? 218.059 218.585 [Very hugging]? 218.059 218.585 CAM: [Yeah], 218.701 219.150 very hugging, 219.150 219.538 they were just -- 219.538 220.921 (H) .. See my [family is] more, 220.028 220.422 LAJUAN: [(THROAT)] 220.921 221.955 CAM: it's it's different. 221.955 222.367 [It's like], 221.955 222.367 LAJUAN: [Mm]. 222.367 225.172 CAM: %= each member of the family is s=lightly different, 225.172 227.670 .. and different a- amount of .. touch. 227.670 229.401 LAJUAN: .. (H)= I always sai=d, 229.401 231.196 ... that if I had children, 231.196 233.637 ... I would always -- 233.637 234.765 Especially if I had a son, 234.765 235.539 I would hug him, 235.539 237.031 just so he knew that I loved him. 237.031 237.656 CAM: Ri=ght. 237.656 238.535 I think it's important, 238.535 239.452 I think it's [good], 238.977 239.452 LAJUAN: [(THROAT)] 239.452 241.382 CAM: .. I don't think you can overly hug, 241.382 242.609 (H) .. um, 242.609 244.245 .. with family and stuff like that. 244.245 244.796 LAJUAN: Yeah. 244.796 245.934 See and that's how I feel, 245.934 246.345 is that, 246.345 247.384 (H) I want to hug him, 247.384 249.150 because I want him to know that I do love him. 249.150 249.638 CAM: Mhm. 249.638 250.366 LAJUAN: And that, 250.366 251.919 .. I I I want my children, 251.919 253.403 .. if I if I ever ha=d children, 253.403 254.369 (H) to know=, 254.369 255.592 (H) ... tha=t, 255.592 258.607 there is nothing wro=ng with showing physical affection between two men. 258.607 259.866 It doesn't make you gay. 259.866 260.483 CAM: .. Right. 260.483 260.981 LAJUAN: .. You know, 260.981 262.986 and tha=t is one of the things that ~Scott was saying yesterday, 262.986 264.096 it really bothered ~Scott a lot, 264.096 265.189 because his nephew, 265.189 266.529 (H) .. uh, 266.529 268.260 .. kept calling him Aunt ~Sco=tt. 268.260 269.626 ... Because, 269.626 272.281 and his nephew was just being rude and obnoxious about every gift, 272.281 273.458 (H) .. he he unwrapped, 273.458 274.306 and his brother said, 274.306 275.999 (H) oh that's just the way kids are today, 275.999 276.356 and I'm like, 276.356 278.200 (H) no that's the way you train your kids. 278.200 280.775 .. (H) If you don't train your kids to be any better, 280.775 282.023 ... then they are, 282.023 283.007 and see and in ~Scott's family, 283.007 283.637 like his brother, 283.637 284.535 his older brother'll say, 284.535 285.535 oh ~Scott's my best friend. 285.535 286.643 (H) But he'll tease ~Scott about-, 286.643 287.699 oh why aren't you married. 287.699 287.935 You know, 287.935 288.892 you must be a fa=g. 288.892 289.209 Or this, 289.209 290.433 (H) and he'll lau=gh it off, 290.433 291.470 (H) and he doesn't realize, 291.470 292.648 well yeah ~Scott i=s gay, 292.648 294.071 (H) and it hurts ~Scott. 294.071 295.535 CAM: .. He doe=sn't know that he's gay? 295.535 296.841 LAJUAN: .. (THROAT) Hm-mm. 296.841 297.225 CAM: .. (THROAT) 297.225 298.278 LAJUAN: .. Has no idea. 298.278 299.524 .. He's probably he's gonna drop him off, 299.524 300.840 which is why I have to close those blinds soon. 300.840 301.799 (H)= .. Bu=t uh, 301.799 302.842 @(Hx) @@@ @(H) 302.842 305.067 .. it it's the way ... he is=. 305.067 306.745 And his brother is just like that. 306.745 307.643 .. And so=, 307.643 308.663 .. he=, 308.663 312.001 ... and h- and so his little boy is growing up the same way. 312.001 312.884 ~Larry's twelve. 312.884 314.521 .. (H) And he='s like this big kid, 314.521 315.133 cause he's overweight. 315.133 316.204 And I told ~Scott I said well ~Scott, 316.204 317.262 (H) I wouldn't take it personal, 317.262 318.385 cause ~Scott was telling me this morning, 318.385 318.651 I said, 318.651 319.508 (H) first of all, 319.508 320.760 .. ~Larry's twelve years old, 320.760 322.478 .. he's like six foot one, 322.478 323.246 and he's fat. 323.246 324.364 .. I mean, 324.364 327.014 he's just .. probably a good two hundred fifty [pounds I said], 326.423 327.497 CAM: [He's six] one? 327.497 328.462 ... At twelve? 328.462 330.416 LAJUAN: ... At twelve years [old]. 330.080 330.819 CAM: [Oh that's] scary. 330.819 332.484 LAJUAN: .. And he's like two hundred and fifty pounds. 332.484 334.297 (H) And I said ~Scott he's compensating, 334.297 334.958 (H) for the fact, 334.958 336.103 I said I bet you the kids pick on him, 336.103 337.103 I said he's different. 337.103 338.566 (H) I said so therefore=, 338.566 340.679 .. (H) he probably is a big bully at school. 340.679 341.722 .. And I said, 341.722 344.066 so he's probably just like this kid who's just like, 344.066 346.014 .. (H) rea=l .. (H) bitter, 346.014 346.876 (H) because nobody -- 346.876 348.961 And I said his dad is just an .. a a jerk, 348.961 349.654 ~Scott's brother, 349.654 351.033 (H) .. will call our hou=se, 351.033 351.583 and just, 351.583 353.477 .. is just .. rude to ~Scott, 353.477 356.544 .. (H) But yet he'll turn around and ask ~Scott to borrow five thousand dollars. 356.544 359.664 ... I mean like he just borrowed twenty-five thousand dollars from ~Scott, 359.664 361.139 (H) .. like two years ago, 361.139 361.500 and told ~Scott, 361.500 362.222 oh I'll give it back, 362.222 364.309 I'm gonna invest it and I'll give it back in three months. 364.309 365.328 (H) So, 365.328 366.093 he gives ~Scott -- 366.093 367.393 .. It takes him instead, 367.393 368.989 a year and a half to pay ~Scott back. 368.989 372.007 (H) Like w- .. ~Scott's got twenty-five thousand dollars just to lay around. 372.007 372.854 .. Like that. 372.854 373.470 .. You know and, 373.470 375.460 (H) .. that's the way his brother is. 375.460 376.631 .. You know very, 376.631 377.749 ... and he's just, 377.749 379.166 .. he's just mea=n to ~Scott. 379.166 380.300 He says things to ~Scott, 380.300 381.535 (H) .. just like, 381.535 384.766 ... oh= just awful things about [gay= and]. 383.882 384.175 CAM: [Well, 384.175 386.182 .. why does]n't .. ~Scott say something. 386.182 387.248 LAJUAN: .. (TSK) (H) Because, 387.248 389.129 .. ~Scott hasn't dealt with his gayness himself, 389.129 390.248 and he hasn't dealt with, 390.248 391.923 ... who he is. 391.923 392.258 CAM: Mm. 392.258 394.683 LAJUAN: ... And that's why he doesn't say anything. 394.683 398.064 CAM: ... So you can't really blame the guy in [the sense] that, 397.231 397.791 LAJUAN: [(THROAT)] 398.064 399.352 CAM: he doesn't [2know he's hurting him2]? 398.440 400.810 LAJUAN: [2(H) If ~Scott2] doesn't stick up for himself, 400.810 401.130 CAM: Right. 401.130 402.330 LAJUAN: (H) And I [keep tell]ing ~Scott, 401.600 401.958 CAM: [(THROAT)] 402.330 404.000 LAJUAN: you're gonna have to say something. 404.000 404.314 CAM: [(THROAT)] 404.000 406.125 LAJUAN: [(H)] Because all of these things are hurting you. 406.125 407.489 CAM: ... [2. 407.080 408.297 LAJUAN: [2And ~Scott2]'s like oh it doesn't bother me, 408.297 409.900 and I'm like then why are you talking about it. 409.900 412.805 ... I said i- if that would have been my nephew, 412.805 413.794 and he would have said that to me, 413.794 414.856 I'd've knocked him across that chair, 414.856 416.109 I don't care how [big he was. 415.507 417.017 CAM: [ 416.109 418.424 LAJUAN: (H) @%= @@@ (H) %] 417.357 418.345 CAM: Oh yeah=]. 418.345 419.520 LAJUAN: % I said my nephews d- -- 419.520 421.066 My nephews and nieces do no=t, 421.066 422.346 (H) one of the little gi[=rls], 422.026 422.346 CAM: [(THROAT)] 422.346 422.974 LAJUAN: f- uh, 422.974 424.345 tried pulling something on -- 424.345 425.358 .. We went shopping, 425.358 427.696 (H) and tried the little attitude in the in the mall. 427.696 429.091 (H) And I grabbed her and I said, 429.091 431.156 I don't care if you are my sister's child, 431.156 433.469 (H) .. I will knock you across that bench, 433.469 434.027 . 433.645 433.810 CAM: [@] 434.027 435.531 LAJUAN: I said [2I don't have to2] take that. 434.404 434.910 CAM: [2@@@2] 435.531 436.234 LAJUAN: -- 436.234 437.948 You will never go shopping with me again. 437.948 439.483 CAM: .. @@@@@@[@] 439.166 439.483 LAJUAN: [Um], 439.483 440.767 I just don't believe in it, 440.767 441.803 and I I I'm sorry, 441.803 443.041 I was not hit as a child, 443.041 444.555 but I also was n=ot nasty, 444.555 445.273 like some kids now? 445.273 446.268 (H) He's right. 446.268 447.248 .. They do talk . 447.248 448.160 Some of the kids say things, 448.160 449.005 but kids always do, 449.005 449.339 bu=t, 449.339 451.157 (H) that's [not an] excu=se. 449.909 450.322 >ENV: [((PHONE_BEEPS))] 451.157 451.850 CAM: Exactly. 451.850 452.498 LAJUAN: .. [(THROAT)] 452.221 452.498 >ENV: [((PHONE_BEEP))] 452.499 453.569 LAJUAN: ... Hello? 453.569 455.577 ... Hello=? 455.577 457.343 ... What's wro=ng. 457.343 458.772 CAM: ...

. 458.772 460.541 LAJUAN: ... 463.347 465.673 ... @(Hx)= 465.673 469.428 ... @% @% (H)= .. Okay, 469.428 471.004 ... (H) alright. 471.004 471.315 Wel- -- 471.315 472.295 .. Yeah. 472.295 475.008 ... If you don't have enough gas and you're worried, 475.008 475.685 that you're gonna run out, 475.685 476.960 I wouldn't go anywhere <% ei=ther %>. 476.960 479.270 ... (TSK) So why don't you call- -- 479.270 480.140 I'll call you later on. 480.140 480.485 Okay? 480.485 481.378 .. (H) Bye. 481.378 481.963 >ENV: .. ((PHONE_BEEP)) 481.963 484.406 LAJUAN: (H) .. He's afraid that he's gonna run out of gas getting over here. 484.406 485.971 CAM: Well why doesn't he get ga=s. 485.971 486.550 LAJUAN: (H) I don't know, 486.550 488.077 he drove all the way back from Green Bay with, 488.077 488.985 .. just on that. 488.985 489.986 And he thought he was %gonna, 489.986 490.298 %like, 490.298 491.100 .. make it, 491.100 492.122 and somebody would be open, 492.122 492.614 and I'm like, 492.614 494.472 ... (H) so he said he's like, 494.472 494.811 it's- -- 494.811 496.219 He said it's like past empty, 496.219 497.223 it's past the E=, 497.223 498.734 .. (H) and so he's afrai=d, 498.734 500.900 (H) .. that he'll run out on his way over here-, 500.900 502.035 and he probably would. 502.035 502.960 CAM: ... Oh=. 502.960 504.303 .. Well he should just, 504.303 505.663 .. [go to a gas] station. 504.734 505.413 LAJUAN: [So he said he'll] -- 505.663 507.149 .. (H) Well there's one down the street from his house, 507.149 508.495 but it'll probably be open tomorrow morning. 508.495 508.919 CAM: .. Oh. 508.919 509.698 LAJUAN: It's not open now. 509.698 511.311 So he said he'd just rather stay home. 511.311 512.830 ... Instead, 512.830 513.524 and I said fi=ne, 513.524 514.223 go ahead and stay home. 514.223 515.631 CAM: @ @ [@@] 515.364 516.213 LAJUAN: [(H)=] But I don't know, 516.213 517.425 I I really think that, 517.425 518.247 it [it's] hard, 517.603 517.841 CAM: [(SNIFF)] 518.247 518.887 LAJUAN: .. it's hard, 518.887 520.232 .. it's it is hard having, 520.232 522.142 ... to hi=de this like ~Scott's doing, 522.142 524.254 I couldn't hide it any longer , 524.254 526.167 ... he's hiding it way too long. 526.167 527.303 CAM: .. Yea=h. 527.303 528.387 LAJUAN: .. [(THROAT)] 528.035 529.548 CAM: [No I] couldn't hide it that long either. 529.548 531.525 ... I told my mother when I had like, 531.525 533.765 ... my .. boyfriend moved away. 533.765 535.533 ... (TSK) [She s-] -- 535.120 535.947 LAJUAN: [Is that why] you told her? 535.947 536.567 CAM: .. Mm. 536.567 537.905 .. Cause I was really upset. 537.905 539.349 .. (H) And then I s- -- 539.349 540.535 .. An=d then she's like, 540.535 541.757 well it's a good thing he moved away, 541.757 543.857 cause he was sort of .. effeminate, 543.857 545.861 ... @ and I was really offended. 545.861 546.942 LAJUAN: .. That's how she took it? 546.942 547.900 CAM: .. Yea=h. 547.900 548.979 .. And I was really offended, 548.979 549.930 cause [she said] something like, 549.143 549.447 LAJUAN: [(THROAT)] 549.930 550.594 CAM: well it's a good thing, 550.594 551.319 he was sort of weird, 551.319 552.562 I didn't like you hanging around him. 552.562 555.159 ... And I said . 555.159 557.044 .. And she said he was sort of effeminate. 557.044 558.004 .. And I was like, 558.004 558.515 well what do you mean, 558.515 559.390 he's gay= or something, 559.390 560.697 she's like well I think he might have been. 560.697 562.152 ... And I said well= %, 562.152 562.903 ... why, 562.903 563.719 does that bother you? 563.719 564.635 I said because I am. 564.635 565.411 .. And she's like, 565.411 566.520 ... no=. 566.520 566.995 You're not. 566.995 567.620 I know you. 567.620 568.303 You're not gay. 568.303 569.845 .. @(Hx)[=] 569.550 569.845 LAJUAN: [(H)] 569.845 570.755 CAM: (H) And I said, 570.755 572.037 (H) .. yes I am. 572.037 572.543 .. I said, 572.543 574.410 ... how do you know me=, 574.410 575.935 better than I know @myself=. 575.935 576.891 @@@@@ 576.891 578.729 (H)= <@ And she's just @> looking at me, 578.729 580.178 and she was like really upset. 580.178 581.875 .. (H) @(Hx)= 581.875 583.445 LAJUAN: Did she tell your dad or did you tell your dad. 583.445 584.085 CAM: (TSK) No, 584.085 586.389 ... she ended up telling him I think eventually, 586.389 587.162 but not right away. 587.162 589.902 .. (H) First thing I had [to go to] see %a= a psychiatrist. 588.099 588.429 LAJUAN: [(THROAT)] 590.018 591.627 .. (TSK) Oh she made you go do that. 591.627 592.001 CAM: Mhm, 592.001 592.617 .. I went, 592.617 594.553 LAJUAN: ... Oh ~Jim's mother told him that too. 594.553 595.878 CAM: .. (TSK) See and then I went, 595.878 597.248 .. and the guy='s like really nice, 597.248 599.418 and [he's like] well what what's why are you here, 597.371 597.658 LAJUAN: [(THROAT)] 599.418 600.732 CAM: .. tell me what's .. what's going on. 600.732 601.895 .. (H) And I said [well=], 601.535 602.754 LAJUAN: [How old] were you at this time. 602.754 604.936 CAM: .. (TSK) (H) .. Nineteen, 604.936 606.925 LAJUAN: .. And she psychiatrist at nineteen? 606.925 607.785 She didn't think you knew=, 607.785 609.119 .. enough about yourself at that age? 609.119 609.478 CAM: .. Right. 609.478 609.770 .. Well, 609.770 610.697 she didn't wa=nt to believe it, 610.697 611.293 [you know], 610.697 611.293 LAJUAN: [(THROAT)] 611.293 611.722 [2Yeah2], 611.447 612.227 CAM: [2I guess2] you can't blame em, 612.227 613.258 some .. to some extent. 613.258 615.310 .. (H) So then I= went to the psychiatrist and, 615.310 616.653 (H) he's like well what's the problem, 616.653 617.079 and I said, 617.079 617.440 well, 617.440 619.308 .. (TSK) my mother's upset because I'm gay. 619.308 620.749 @= @@@@ 620.749 621.388 (H) And he's like, 621.388 623.048 well it sounds like she has a problem @then, 623.048 625.561 @= @@[@@@@@@ (H) 623.790 624.739 LAJUAN: [@@@= (H)= 624.739 625.850 Did he really say that]? 625.572 626.106 CAM: . 626.106 628.245 He said it sounds like that- she's the one with the problem. 628.245 630.770 ... And I didn't even th=ink about how I s=aid it. 630.770 631.589 I just said it? 631.589 631.996 You know? 631.996 634.049 ... And he interpreted w- how I said it, 634.049 635.354 .. as how it wa=s. 635.354 635.655 You know, 635.655 636.487 [w- which is true=]. 635.655 637.010 LAJUAN: [(H) And you know what's really f]=unny, 637.010 638.990 is [2that a2] psychiatrist [3would3] say that, 637.315 637.489 CAM: [2(SNIFF)2] 638.164 638.397 [3(THROAT)3] 638.990 640.374 LAJUAN: .. and knowingly know= that, 640.374 640.976 (H) .. you know, 640.976 642.939 he= accepted the fact that yes you are gay, 642.939 643.781 that it is something that, 643.781 645.781 .. (H) like when ~Mike told his friend ~Julia, 645.781 647.492 .. (H) ~Mike was telling me that ~Julia said, 647.492 648.822 .. (H) oh I don't li=ke it, 648.822 649.947 but if that's what you want, 649.947 651.619 maybe that's not truly who you are=. 651.619 653.268 ... You know, 653.268 653.607 and, 653.607 654.427 .. I said to ~Mike, 654.427 656.049 I said then ~Mike she didn't accept it. 656.049 658.308 ... A=nd, 658.308 660.215 ... he sai=d, 660.215 661.018 .. (H) well, 661.018 662.202 .. I think she accepted it, 662.202 663.079 she just said that, 663.079 665.734 (H) and he told her that he feels he was bo=rn with it, 665.734 666.385 and she said, 666.385 667.293 ... no, 667.293 667.830 I don't believe that, 667.830 669.644 I think it's your choice that that's what you want. 669.644 670.944 .. (H) And I said to- -- 670.944 671.853 And I and I told ~Mike, 671.853 672.470 I said you know, 672.470 673.893 (H) I hate when people say that, 673.893 674.269 because, 674.269 675.641 .. if I felt that was my choice, 675.641 678.304 (H) .. I don't think that would've been the first choice I would've picked. 678.304 679.285 CAM: @@@@@ 679.285 680.579 [@Oh Go=d no]. 679.285 681.716 LAJUAN: [(H) And it's not to say that I'm ash]=a=med of being gay, 681.716 682.232 CAM: [2No=2]. 681.716 682.711 LAJUAN: [2% what it is2]= is that, 682.711 684.550 (H) because of what society has do=ne, 684.550 686.584 or has (H) laid the ru=les for us, 686.584 688.891 .. (H) I don't [really] think I would have chose to be gay. 687.369 687.647 CAM: [(THROAT)] 688.891 689.655 LAJUAN: .. I I wouldn't. 689.655 690.566 .. Why would I want to be gay, 690.566 691.970 and have to deal with what we go through. 691.970 693.676 CAM: ... Exa=ctly. 693.676 696.011 And that's I ex[plained] to my f=olks now and, 694.599 694.899 LAJUAN: [(THROAT)] 696.011 698.573 CAM: .. (H)= [2and they2]= % .. totally believe that it's, 696.573 696.989 LAJUAN: [2(THROAT)2] 698.573 700.638 CAM: .. like .. hereditary or genetic or whatever, 700.638 701.845 that it's not a choice. 701.845 702.727 .. You know, 702.727 703.256 [because] -- 702.727 703.822 LAJUAN: [They do] believe it now? 703.822 704.225 CAM: Oh yeah. 704.225 704.920 [They totally b-] -- 704.225 704.724 LAJUAN: [(H) Oh=, 704.724 705.693 I] believe it's .. it's -- 705.693 707.076 I don't know if it's hereditary? 707.076 708.273 .. I do believe it's something. 708.273 709.243 (H) It's a ge=ne, 709.243 710.066 or it's something. 710.066 710.495 CAM: Right. 710.495 711.872 LAJUAN: I I do=n't .. think -- 711.872 712.944 I don't care what people say. 712.944 713.508 You- you are -- 713.508 714.650 You do not choose. 714.650 715.254 CAM: Unh-u[=nh]. 714.952 715.647 LAJUAN: [I've] known, 715.647 716.548 since I was=, 716.548 719.063 .. (H) ... gosh, 719.063 719.948 .. probably=, 719.948 721.046 .. I can remember? 721.046 721.500 Four? 721.500 722.441 .. Five years old? 722.441 723.202 CAM: I remember that. 723.202 723.485 []. 723.202 725.578 LAJUAN: [I re]member= .. looking .. a=t, 725.578 727.734 ... my uncle was sleeping, 727.734 729.199 .. (H) on the couch, 729.199 730.561 ... in our family room, 730.561 731.466 (H) an=d, 731.466 733.296 he was sleeping there with his boxers on, 733.296 735.705 and his .. peepee fell out of his pants. 735.705 737.815 (H) .. And I just stood there and stared at it, 737.815 739.227 (H) an[=d I was] -- 738.690 739.227 CAM: [@@@] 739.227 740.809 LAJUAN: And I know it was a sexual arousement, 740.809 743.558 cause I can remember feeling sexually .. interested. 743.558 744.914 CAM: ... @[@@@@] 744.150 746.024 LAJUAN: [And so I was] like four years old. 746.024 747.556 ... So I knew then. 747.556 749.865 .. You you kno=w what you feel insi=de. 749.865 750.859 You you c- you [can't] -- 750.386 750.859 CAM: [Right]. 750.859 753.111 LAJUAN: ... (H) And I don't care what anybody says, 753.111 754.246 a- a- f- at four years old, 754.246 754.736 I pick- -- 754.736 755.511 I chose that? 755.511 757.550 That I ... liked .. what I saw, 757.550 758.263 I don't think so. 758.263 759.740 I don't think I knew at four years old, 759.740 761.328 (H) that I could actually just say oh, 761.328 761.936 (H) wow, 761.936 763.124 I wanna play with this guy. 763.124 763.787 (H) [You know], 763.387 763.787 CAM: [Right]. 763.787 764.861 LAJUAN: I don't think so. 764.861 766.314 .. And and if they say things like, 766.314 768.408 (H) oh when I was maybe s=even, 768.408 770.251 ... I slept with my cousin ~Tommy, 770.251 772.214 who was probably twelve thirteen? 772.214 773.634 (H) .. At the time, 773.634 774.740 and I slept with him, 774.740 776.450 ... no he was sixteen. 776.450 777.632 .. Shared a bed with him, 777.632 778.386 and he=, 778.386 779.574 .. (H) uh=, 779.574 781.588 ... started fondling me, 781.588 782.401 and I enjoyed it, 782.401 783.607 and I fondled him back. 783.607 785.852 .. (H) And I was like .. seven years old. 785.852 788.381 (H) And .. I .. I don't say that he did it to me, 788.381 789.460 he molested me or, 789.460 791.225 r- or raped me as people are saying now, 791.225 792.353 (H) the older uncle, 792.353 793.552 (H) .. generally, 793.552 794.582 I think these kids, 794.582 795.550 CAM: ... Hm. 795.550 797.465 LAJUAN: .. not saying adults should've been more responsible, 797.465 799.562 my six[teen-year-old] cons- cousin should have been more responsible, 797.799 798.063 CAM: [(THROAT)] 799.562 801.176 LAJUAN: and not played with a seven-year-old child, 801.176 801.906 (H) but, 801.906 802.615 .. he did. 802.615 804.620 (H) But I'm not gonna turn around and tell my aunt, 804.620 804.832 well, 804.832 805.895 .. gee your son, 805.895 807.320 .. mol[ested me] as a child. 806.173 806.802 CAM: [Is he gay]? 807.320 807.572 LAJUAN: No. 807.572 808.817 CAM: ... He's not gay. 808.817 809.701 LAJUAN: .. Well, 809.701 810.266 .. we don't know. 810.266 812.165 (H) [@(Hx)= (H) (H)] (Hx) 810.741 811.722 CAM: [@@@@@@] 812.165 813.569 LAJUAN: .. (H) A=ctually=, 813.569 814.506 .. I think he is. 814.506 816.395 He brought home a drag queen for Christmas last year. 816.395 817.330 .. (H) So. 817.330 818.292 CAM: .. Oh yeah. 818.292 819.593 @@[@@@]@@@ 818.522 819.125 LAJUAN: [ no. 821.646 822.011 he ha- -- 822.011 823.964 (H) .. Like when he turned twenty-two, 823.964 824.653 he got .. married, 824.653 825.563 and he had kids and stuff, 825.563 826.230 he has= .. kids, 826.230 827.138 which doesn't mean anything, 827.138 828.186 there are a lot of fags with kids, 828.186 828.346 but, 828.346 830.053 (H) he= .. just is very, 830.053 831.357 .. that was what ha=ppened to me. 831.357 832.967 And .. and I don't blame my cousin, 832.967 834.975 it was just another awakening experience for me, 834.975 836.313 I mean there were several experiences, 836.313 837.572 (H) when I was growing up, 837.572 837.932 I mean, 837.932 839.787 (H) I remember watching one of our neighbors, 839.787 840.778 who was taking a shower, 840.778 842.329 and you could see right through his bedroom, 842.329 843.631 and he got out and he was naked. 843.631 844.795 And I remember watching. 844.795 847.442 .. (H) And I remember being mesmerized by his body. 847.442 850.466 ... I was never really that mesmerized by a female's body, 850.466 851.653 as I was by a male's body, 851.653 852.115 [and so], 851.653 852.115 CAM: [Right]. 852.115 854.708 LAJUAN: (H) that's why I don't understand where uh .. they come up with this of, 854.708 855.778 (H) it's your choice. 855.778 856.457 It's no=t. 856.457 857.238 I I know, 857.238 858.566 (H) [that that's] what I [2felt2]. 857.553 857.878 CAM: [], 858.146 859.646 [2(H) I2] remember when I was li- -- 859.646 860.946 I was like probab[3ly three or3] four, 860.322 860.670 LAJUAN: [3(THROAT)3] 860.946 861.944 CAM: and I was wrestling on the-, 861.944 863.970 I th- I [remember] wrestling on the floor, 862.461 862.876 LAJUAN: [(THROAT)] 863.970 865.079 CAM: (H) with my brothers, 865.079 865.900 and being aroused. 865.900 866.324 . 866.324 869.849 ... Just like .. goofing around and stuff [like that]? 869.408 869.849 LAJUAN: [Mhm]. 869.849 871.302 CAM: ... (H) And then I think the l- -- 871.302 873.411 .. %The experience when I was younger, 873.411 876.047 and my %=older brothers had .. friends over. 876.047 877.262 .. (H) I remember the f- -- 877.262 879.368 .. He he he .. come over with these friends, 879.368 880.035 with these guys, 880.035 881.030 and I would just be like, 881.030 882.490 ... in lust. 882.490 884.018 .. @(Hx)= @@ (H) 884.018 884.896 @For @these guys, 884.896 885.226 I mean, 885.226 886.767 (H) I must have been like nine or ten, 886.767 889.277 and I was just like ... idolizing these guys. 889.277 890.242

P>, 890.677 891.690 ... I remember, 891.690 893.218 I would like imagine like, 893.218 894.915 .. if I could have them in my bedroom. 894.915 896.373 LAJUAN: .. [See th- yeah]. 895.486 896.373 CAM: [That type of thing]. 896.373 897.173 ... You know, 897.173 897.814 [of- oh if] -- 897.173 897.814 LAJUAN: [Mhm]. 897.814 899.972 CAM: .. Li- as if they were like a to[2=y or2] something. 899.139 899.382 LAJUAN: [2(THROAT)2] 899.972 901.441 .. (TSK) (H) That was my older brother, 901.441 902.388 because my [older] brother=, 901.813 902.008 CAM: [(THROAT)] 902.388 902.835 LAJUAN: .. uh=, 902.835 904.057 .. played football at Perdue, 904.057 904.581 CAM: .. [Mhm]. 904.265 905.490 LAJUAN: [(H)] and I used to go to games, 905.490 906.528 and I followed him around, 906.528 907.612 he'd take me for weekends, 907.612 909.103 and then I'd get to sit in the locker room. 909.103 909.889 (H) And, 909.889 912.003 .. these guys would like tickle me=, 912.003 912.753 and hug me, 912.753 913.930 and I was just a little kid. 913.930 915.088 .. (H) Cause I probably -- 915.088 915.383 .. Mm, 915.383 916.953 .. I was probably about ten at the time, 916.953 917.632 ten eleven, 917.632 919.881 (H) and they= just thought I was the ni=cest little boy, 919.881 920.072 and, 920.072 921.248 (H) .. I just had, 921.248 921.759 and I knew it. 921.759 923.721 I was always sexually aroused by it. 923.721 924.043 .. And -- 924.043 925.419 (H) And you know these things, 925.419 925.584 and, 925.584 927.387 (H) .. you know it's ins=ide of you. 927.387 928.156 .. [A=]nd, 927.529 927.890 CAM: [Mhm]. 928.156 929.231 LAJUAN: ... you know, 929.231 930.342 .. what what do you do. 930.342 931.608 .. And I know my brother, 931.608 933.011 ... who lives in Dallas, 933.011 933.230 uh, 933.230 934.484 the one that played football at Perdue, 934.484 934.815 he -- 934.815 935.582 (H) He knew it. 935.582 936.990 .. (H) He .. he knew, 936.990 938.466 he knew especially after @~Ron, 938.466 939.936 .. because when I left California, 939.936 941.172 (H) I didn't come back here first, 941.172 942.254 I actually went to Dallas. 942.254 944.430 (H) .. Because my brother's like come and stay with me=, 944.430 945.286 things'll work ou=t, 945.286 945.810 and, 945.810 947.395 .. (H) you can look for a job down here. 947.395 949.039 .. (H) A=nd so=, 949.039 950.582 .. ~Ron f=lew to Dallas, 950.582 951.905 .. and went to my brother's house, 951.905 952.755 and banged on the door, 952.755 953.732 and said I want to see him, 953.732 954.398 we need to talk, 954.398 954.962 and my brother's like, 954.962 957.527 (H) ... this is really odd for two friends, 957.527 959.799 .. to be this emotionally atta=ched. 959.799 962.240 (H) And I was like crying all the time, 962.240 963.511 .. (H) and like when ~Ron came, 963.511 964.535 I started to- crying, 964.535 965.144 and I was just like, 965.144 966.219 just tell him to leave me alone, 966.219 967.223 just get him out of here, 967.223 968.794 (H) .. and .. blah blah blah, 968.794 969.235 and, 969.235 970.322 CAM: @ <@ Oh my [Go=d @>]. 969.775 971.761 LAJUAN: [Now you] tell me your family doesn't realize, 971.761 972.807 now what is wrong, 972.807 974.826 that two friends a=re=, 974.826 975.149 .. (H) 975.149 975.863 CAM: .. Having a, 975.863 976.740 LAJUAN: .. Th- a thing. 976.740 978.087 They're fighting each other=, 978.087 980.612 th- one guy's standing outside the house at midnight screaming, 980.612 983.011 (H) let me talk to him let me talk to him, 983.011 984.703 ... it is a little weird. 984.703 986.214 ... You know, 986.214 986.705 so, 986.705 987.453 CAM: .. Yeah, 987.453 988.708 I think they would figure that one out. 988.708 988.893 LAJUAN: Yeah, 988.893 989.862 and my brother had met ~Ron, 989.862 991.773 cause we went down there on a vacation spring break once, 991.773 993.211 and he thought we- he was really cool, 993.211 993.842 and stuff so, 993.842 995.638 .. (H) he really liked him a lo=t, 995.638 996.955 (H) until that episode, 996.955 997.319 and then, 997.319 997.757 .. uh, 997.757 999.979 I haven't spoke to my brother to be honest with you since. 999.979 1000.787 CAM: .. Really? 1000.787 1001.261 LAJUAN: .. % 1001.261 1002.194 CAM: ... Why. 1002.194 1003.131 W- was he like upset? 1003.131 1005.140 LAJUAN: ... (H)= ... % No= h-, 1005.140 1007.549 I th=ink ... I'm afraid, 1007.549 1008.312 CAM: ... Oh, 1008.312 1010.623 LAJUAN: .. I'm afraid that he's gonna come right out and ask me, 1010.623 1011.168 CAM: .. Oh, 1011.168 1012.059 LAJUAN: .. about it, 1012.059 1012.685 and what happened was, 1012.685 1013.996 I ended up leaving Dallas, 1013.996 1016.291 .. and coming back .. to Wisconsin like a week later, 1016.291 1017.491 CAM: But doesn't he come up here ever? 1017.491 1018.685 .. For holidays at all or anything? 1018.685 1019.730 LAJUAN: I won't go home when he's here. 1019.730 1021.994 CAM: @(Hx)= [<@ Are you serious @>]? 1020.776 1021.994 LAJUAN: [@(Hx) (H)] 1021.994 1022.636 I won't go to Indiana, 1022.636 1024.137 % see I don't have any family in Wisconsin. 1024.137 1025.260 My family['s all in Indi]ana. 1024.441 1024.828 CAM: [Mm]. 1025.260 1026.352 LAJUAN: (H) So when he comes home, 1026.352 1027.769 like if I know he's coming home for Thanksgiving, 1027.769 1028.507 I won't [go home]. 1028.010 1028.507 CAM: [(THROAT)] 1028.507 1030.380 LAJUAN: (H) He did call me one time, 1030.380 1032.693 (H) because he needed me to se- sign a property agreement, 1032.693 1034.249 some property we own jointly, 1034.249 1034.786 CAM: [.. Mhm]. 1034.249 1034.786 LAJUAN: [(H)] 1034.786 1035.127 .. My -- 1035.127 1036.047 There's eight of us, 1036.047 1037.181 that my grandparents left us, 1037.181 1038.654 and he needed to borrow money against it. 1038.654 1039.738 (H) So he called, 1039.738 1040.944 (H) .. and left me a message, 1040.944 1041.374 I wasn't home, 1041.374 1042.207 I was working, 1042.207 1043.111 (H) .. a=nd, 1043.111 1043.425 he said, 1043.425 1045.220 ga=ve me his number and told me to call him ba=ck, 1045.220 1045.894 .. (H) and, 1045.894 1047.126 I called my sister and said fine, 1047.126 1047.528 send me the p- -- 1047.528 1048.867 Tell him to send me the paper and I'll sign it, 1048.867 1049.862 and I never talked to him. 1049.862 1050.948 CAM: [.. @@@] 1049.862 1052.118 LAJUAN: [.. (H) So I haven't] talked to my b=rother, 1052.118 1054.885 ... see I've been in Milwaukee for ten years=, 1054.885 1055.250 s=o, 1055.250 1056.597 .. about ten and a half years. 1056.597 1057.337 CAM: .. Wo=w. 1057.337 1057.888 How old is he. 1057.888 1060.210 LAJUAN: ... (H) He's a lot older than I am, 1060.210 1062.526 cause if I was ten and he was nineteen, 1062.526 1064.464 ... so he's nine years older than me? 1064.464 1064.849 CAM: [Oh], 1064.464 1065.161 LAJUAN: [So] he's -- 1065.161 1066.309 .. He's older, 1066.309 1067.161 he's in his forties. 1067.161 1069.049 ... Yeah. 1069.049 1069.913 .. He's in his fort[ies]. 1069.698 1073.117 CAM: [Don't you] think it's it's more that you were just- ... [2nervous at the time 2], 1072.008 1073.498 LAJUAN: [2(H)= Well now I'm gonna2] tell him. 1073.498 1075.319 .. I've t- I keep telling myself every month, 1075.319 1075.998 .. call him, 1075.998 1076.910 (H) and just tell him, 1076.910 1078.163 because I wanna go to Dallas, 1078.163 1079.029 (H) .. and I wanna -- 1079.029 1080.055 I I miss my brother. 1080.055 1080.834 He was my best friend-, 1080.834 1081.855 and he knows. 1081.855 1083.561 .. (H) He= .. knows. 1083.561 1084.490 ... But, 1084.490 1085.518 .. I just couldn't, 1085.518 1087.477 ... just come right out and tell him then. 1087.477 1088.163 I couldn't tell him, 1088.163 1088.369 wel- -- 1088.369 1089.474 There was more to it than that. 1089.474 1090.710 (H) ~Ron came to the house, 1090.710 1091.597 he had a gu=n, 1091.597 1093.868 .. (H) they had to call the poli=ce[=], 1093.265 1094.175 CAM: [He had a gu=]n=? 1094.175 1095.024 LAJUAN: .. Yes=. 1095.024 1096.496 CAM: @(Hx)= [@@@] 1095.782 1097.122 LAJUAN: [And he was standing out]side the house, 1097.122 1097.681 saying I'm gonna -- 1097.681 1098.730 .. I'm gonna kill myself, 1098.730 1099.664 if you don't talk to me, 1099.664 1100.215 just tell me, 1100.215 1101.854 (H)= .. a=nd, 1101.854 1102.252 .. th- -- 1102.252 1104.061 There was just so much to [this VOX>], 1103.205 1104.845 CAM: [(TSK) This is the guy who] doesn't know he's gay. 1104.845 1106.372 .. [2Or= isn't2] sure if he's gay. 1105.230 1105.790 LAJUAN: [2Yes2]. 1106.372 1107.193 .. Yes. 1107.193 1109.481 Who's now in the air force and lives in th- in South Carolina. 1109.481 1110.599 .. (TSK) (H) %So. 1110.599 1111.875 CAM: ... Wait a second. 1111.875 1114.268 ... I thought this w- guy was go- was married. 1114.268 1115.182 LAJUAN: ... ~Ron. 1115.182 1115.930 CAM: ... ~Ron, 1115.930 1116.405 .. he's married, 1116.405 1116.704 right? 1116.704 1117.499 LAJUAN: .. That's ~Darren. 1117.499 1118.082 CAM: Oh=, 1118.082 1118.827 I'm thinking of [~Darren right]. 1118.477 1118.993 LAJUAN: [(H) No], 1118.993 1120.295 ~Darren's= the other guy that, 1120.295 1122.465 .. , 1122.465 1123.478 the one that I told, 1123.478 1125.216 CAM: .. Oh those frat boys are too much. 1125.216 1126.504 LAJUAN: .. @= <@ I know @>. 1126.504 1128.247 (H)= He was the one that I told, 1128.247 1130.484 ... that if he'd had told me he loved me, 1130.484 1132.490 .. I would have never left ~Washington and moved with ~Ron. 1132.490 1134.228 I would have ... [stuck with] ~Darren. 1133.430 1133.826 CAM: [Oh]. 1134.228 1135.384 LAJUAN: .. I would have n=ever. 1135.384 1136.717 (H) Cause I never really, 1136.717 1137.734 .. like I said, 1137.734 1138.790 ~Ron was my friend. 1138.790 1140.069 .. And I knew ~Ron was my [friend]. 1139.686 1140.069 CAM: [(THROAT)] 1140.069 1141.321 LAJUAN: .. (H) .. A=nd, 1141.321 1142.715 I was in love with ~Darren. 1142.715 1143.778 .. When I was in college, 1143.778 1144.644 and to this d=ay, 1144.644 1146.716 (H) ... if ~Scott wasn't here, 1146.716 1148.635 and .. ~Darren wasn't married to a woman, 1148.635 1150.322 (H) .. I would be with ~Darren. 1150.322 1154.851 ... (TSK) (H) He was probably .. the best ... s=exual partner, 1154.851 1156.933 .. (H) I % could ever imagine. 1156.933 1158.262 [@=] 1156.933 1158.262 CAM: [@@@@@@] 1158.262 1159.688 LAJUAN: .. @@@@@ 1159.688 1160.745 CAM: [Oh my God]. 1159.688 1161.673 LAJUAN: [. 1161.673 1164.362 ... (H) He's the only person I know who kissed me, 1164.362 1166.493 when h- when he kissed me I just came . 1166.493 1168.305 CAM: .. (TSK) You never had sex. 1168.305 1169.341 LAJUAN: .. N=ot, 1169.341 1169.913 .. you know. 1169.913 1171.581 ... Not the booty dance. 1171.581 1173.421 [(H)= @(Hx)= @@ @@ @ 1171.581 1173.177 CAM: [@@@@@@@ 1173.177 1174.492 <@ The booty dance @>]. 1173.421 1176.654 LAJUAN: (H) @(Hx)=] @@@@@ [2@%= @(H)2] 1175.737 1176.654 CAM: [2<% Wo=w %>2]. 1176.654 1178.473 LAJUAN: We= .. had u=m, 1178.473 1180.408 CAM: ... You had oral sex. 1180.408 1181.369 LAJUAN: Oral sex=. 1181.369 1182.408 .. But he= was just, 1182.408 1182.697 oh, 1182.697 1184.239 ... (TSK) (H) and fi=ne. 1184.239 1187.503 ... (H) And I don't like men with like auburn hair. 1187.503 1188.789 .. But he had auburn hair, 1188.789 1189.889 and these turquoise eyes, 1189.889 1190.608 and he was like, 1190.608 1191.518 .. six foot, 1191.518 1192.178 and just, 1192.178 1192.668 .. oh, 1192.668 1193.995 .. (H) and he still is. 1193.995 1194.989 I was just like, 1194.989 1196.927 .. (H) he is to die= for. 1196.927 1197.393 .. I thought, 1197.393 1198.551 .. (H) .. -- 1198.551 1200.243 I was so young then and so stupid. 1200.243 1201.741 .. (H) He was the [one that] blamed me, 1200.824 1201.168 CAM: [

] 1201.741 1203.114 LAJUAN: he wouldn't speak to me for six months, 1203.114 1204.650 the first time we messed around we were drunk. 1204.650 1205.993 .. And we messed around. 1205.993 1207.422 And he wouldn't speak to me for six months, 1207.422 1209.369 and said it was my fault that he knows he's not gay. 1209.369 1212.150 .. But yet he was the one that grabbed me and threw me on the floor. 1212.150 1214.143 CAM: .. He [confronted you and said] that to you? 1212.868 1213.753 LAJUAN: [And got on top of me]. 1214.143 1216.257 ... (H) .. I called him, 1216.257 1216.521 CAM: Oh. 1216.521 1218.209 LAJUAN: the next day after it had happened. 1218.209 1220.055 (H) And he said I don't want to talk to you, 1220.055 1222.288 (H) you took advantage of me when I was drunk. 1222.288 1223.628 But he's the one that grabbed me, 1223.628 1224.643 (H) kissed me, 1224.643 1226.567 ... took my underwear off, 1226.567 1227.506 ... a=nd, 1227.506 1228.519 .. he started it. 1228.519 1229.915 ... You know, 1229.915 1231.586 I knew= .. what I was about. 1231.586 1233.375 .. I .. didn't .. get into it, 1233.375 1234.161 but I knew. 1234.161 1234.714 CAM: .. Right. 1234.714 1235.799 LAJUAN: ... And, 1235.799 1236.337 he was the one, 1236.337 1237.404 that was the first experience. 1237.404 1238.516 And then the second experience, 1238.516 1240.330 (H) he didn't speak to me for three months, 1240.330 1242.849 ... % because he blamed me for that. 1242.849 1243.525 And then=, 1243.525 1245.317 .. the third experience he blamed me for, 1245.317 1247.810 (H) he's been blaming me for all of these experiences, 1247.810 1248.575 up unti=l, 1248.575 1250.409 ... uh= li=ke, 1250.409 1252.344 .. ~Scott and I got serious like the year after, 1252.344 1254.013 and I was still k=ind of seeing ~Darren, 1254.013 1255.492 (H) I went out to Washington and stuff, 1255.492 1257.238 (H) and that's when he sto=pped blaming me. 1257.238 1257.912 Now=, 1257.912 1260.660 (H) he calls me and tells me that he wants to be with me. 1260.660 1261.919 ... And, 1261.919 1262.410 .. he called -- 1262.410 1263.418 Like he called me last week, 1263.418 1264.533 and said he wanted to be with me. 1264.533 1267.061 CAM: ... You're kidding. 1267.061 1267.681 LAJUAN: .. No. 1267.681 1268.951 .. But he's married to ~Lauren. 1268.951 1271.155 ... And I keep telling him, 1271.155 1272.304 get out of that relationship, 1272.304 1273.391 .. before you have children. 1273.391 1274.824 ... Just get out of it, 1274.824 1276.932 .. don't carry any by- baggage with you. 1276.932 1278.526 ... Always my biggest theory. 1278.526 1280.318 Don't carry any excess baggage. 1280.318 1281.244 CAM: .. Mm=. 1281.244 1281.694 LAJUAN: With you. 1281.694 1282.940 (H) And he lo=ves her. 1282.940 1284.554 But what he doesn't know how to separate is, 1284.554 1286.900 (H) he loves her but he's not in love with her. 1286.900 1288.710 ... You know what I mean, 1288.710 1289.565 [he he just -- 1288.710 1289.565 CAM: [Right right. 1289.565 1290.021 Oh] yeah, 1289.565 1289.813 LAJUAN: (H)] 1290.021 1291.094 CAM: you can love a person, 1291.094 1292.386 .. but .. you're not [in love] with them, 1291.695 1292.117 LAJUAN: [(THROAT)] 1292.386 1293.291 CAM: It's not sexual. 1293.291 1294.455 LAJUAN: ... Yeah. 1294.455 1296.219 ... (H) And that's really har[=d]. 1295.842 1296.219 CAM: [(THROAT)] 1296.219 1297.217 LAJUAN: .. Becau=se, 1297.217 1297.463 CAM: (SNIFF) 1297.463 1300.187 LAJUAN: ... you you find it very difficult to be, 1300.187 1301.238 .. to love someone and, 1301.238 1302.559 when you tell someone you love them, 1302.559 1303.876 (H) they misunderstand, 1303.876 1304.888 what love is all about. 1304.888 1305.369 So, 1305.369 1306.899 ... (TSK) I don't know. 1306.899 1307.503 But I d- I, 1307.503 1309.469 .. (H) I think if there was ever anybody, 1309.469 1310.606 .. I truly -- 1310.606 1311.056 But he k- -- 1311.056 1311.736 .. He=, 1311.736 1313.798 .. (H) everybody has that one person who breaks their heart, 1313.798 1314.835 and he broke my heart. 1314.835 1316.548 .. Just incredibly because, 1316.548 1318.506 .. (H) I wasn't really in love with his looks, 1318.506 1319.457 I= just, 1319.457 1322.360 ... I've never met anybody who when you .. they touched you, 1322.360 1322.707 just, 1322.707 1323.982 .. there was so much warmth. 1323.982 1324.762 And so much, 1324.762 1325.540 .. (H) just -- 1325.540 1326.940 There was so much .. energy there. 1326.940 1328.135 .. (H) Tha=t, 1328.135 1328.969 .. I mean, 1328.969 1330.991 CAM: (TSK) So you've .. kept [in con]tact with him? 1330.063 1330.400 LAJUAN: [

], 1330.991 1332.123 .. yes=. 1332.123 1333.562 Since nineteen -- 1333.562 1334.644 ... Yeah. 1334.644 1335.967 CAM: ... That's ama[zing]. 1335.664 1336.283 LAJUAN: [I've been] here, 1336.283 1336.985 for all this time, 1336.985 1338.287 CAM: .. What does he just call, 1338.287 1339.076 or you call, 1339.076 1339.548 P> -- 1339.548 1339.920 LAJUAN: No. 1339.920 1340.778 .. He calls me. 1340.778 1342.959 ... I can't call him. 1342.959 1344.014 CAM: ... Oh. 1344.014 1345.626 LAJUAN: ... (H)= Actually I can, 1345.626 1347.461 cause his wife knows that we're friends. 1347.461 1349.337 .. But I don't choose to call him. 1349.337 1350.522 ... (H) He -- 1350.522 1352.140 ... Like he used to travel, 1352.140 1353.007 [around] the country, 1352.140 1352.376 CAM: [(SNIFF)] 1353.007 1353.461 LAJUAN: they live -- 1353.461 1355.004 They used to live in [~Valencia] California, 1354.059 1354.546 CAM: [(THROAT)] 1355.004 1355.997 LAJUAN: now they live somewhere, 1355.997 1357.133 ... they just moved, 1357.133 1358.315 cause his wife got a new job. 1358.315 1359.754 (H) He quit his job for her, 1359.754 1361.340 ... for her= .. job. 1361.340 1362.805 Cause she moved to California for them, 1362.805 1364.132 cause they were living in Washington DC. 1364.132 1365.985 (H) So he used to travel all around the world. 1365.985 1368.602 (H) Well whenever he come to Wisconsin for the dairy expo, 1368.602 1369.574 or he'd come here, 1369.574 1371.665 .. (H) go to Chicago for .. some reason, 1371.665 1372.772 to take businessmen around, 1372.772 1373.933 (H) what he did was, 1373.933 1374.812 (H) .. %uh, 1374.812 1378.042 he took f=- uh farmers around from arou- different parts of the world, 1378.042 1379.535 so that they can look at farms. 1379.535 1381.993 (H) So his travel a lot of times was in Wisconsin, 1381.993 1383.334 .. because of the farms here. 1383.334 1385.614 .. (H) They would see how= .. things were done and, 1385.614 1385.965 he- -- 1385.965 1388.638 ... He like took them around .. (TSK) the world. 1388.638 1389.641 .. (H) You know doing this. 1389.641 1391.010 And he traveled all over the world. 1391.010 1391.485 (H) See, 1391.485 1392.371 tha=t's why, 1392.371 1394.017 ... I think ~Darren no=w, 1394.017 1395.095 is getting to this point where, 1395.095 1397.351 (H) .. he's with ~Lauren all the ti=me. 1397.351 1398.998 ... And before, 1398.998 1401.066 ~Darren traveled like ninety percent of the year. 1401.066 1402.469 ... He was gone. 1402.469 1403.108 .. I mean, 1403.108 1404.891 ~Darren was gone ninety percent of the year. 1404.891 1407.570 ... So now he's with ~Lauren .. ev=ery day, 1407.570 1409.823 and it's been this way for the last three or four months. 1409.823 1411.079 .. (H) And I [think k] -- 1410.603 1411.350 CAM: [Oh that's] all? 1411.350 1413.035 ... For the last three or four months? 1413.035 1413.313 [Oh] -- 1413.035 1413.826 LAJUAN: [He just] started stop -- 1413.826 1414.946 They've been married six years. 1414.946 1416.139 .. He [just stopped trav]eling. 1415.206 1415.898 CAM: [Oh=]? 1416.139 1418.786 LAJUAN: ... And I think now it's just like, 1418.786 1420.248 ... I don't know if this is for me, 1420.248 1421.363 I don't know if this is right, 1421.363 1422.831 (H) and he's starting to call me. 1422.831 1424.604 And he's starting to tell me how much he cares for me, 1424.604 1425.862 and how he has feelings for me, 1425.862 1426.068 and I -- 1426.068 1427.524 (H) I know that you're with ~Scott. 1427.524 1428.875 (H) And I'm just li=ke, 1428.875 1431.168 ... and I'm not giving up my life for you. 1431.168 1432.248 .. (H) He asked me once, 1432.248 1433.090 right out of college, 1433.090 1434.511 when he moved to Washington DC, 1434.511 1435.973 ... when I came back, 1435.973 1436.795 from California, 1436.795 1437.256 and I was here, 1437.256 1438.332 and I had just started working, 1438.332 1440.079 (H) he asked me to move to ~Madison. 1440.079 1441.131 ... To be with him. 1441.131 1443.617 .. That was when he was on the peak of thinking maybe I am gay. 1443.617 1444.675 .. (H) And I said, 1444.675 1445.714 ... well=, 1445.714 1447.057 .. why don't I come out there first, 1447.057 1447.513 and we'll see. 1447.513 1448.339 So I went out there, 1448.339 1448.956 (H) and he goes, 1448.956 1450.922 (H) well yeah you can move out here and get your own apartment, 1450.922 1452.726 whereas he owned a three-bedroom hou=se, 1452.726 1454.223 ... and lived by himself, 1454.223 1454.631 and I'm like, 1454.631 1455.458 ... okay, 1455.458 1456.713 can I afford to move out here, 1456.713 1457.414 get a apartment, 1457.414 1458.428 until I fi=nd -- 1458.428 1461.486 He never said move in here with me until you find a place or whatever. 1461.486 1462.927 (H) It was just li=ke, 1462.927 1464.937 .. (H) and then he wanted the still straight life, 1464.937 1466.196 ... and this and that and other. 1466.196 1468.065 So now he claims bisexuality, 1468.065 1470.788 .. (H) but he's moving closer I think gay, 1470.788 1473.138 .. (H) because when he was talking to me on the phone last week, 1473.138 1476.071 ... he was telling me how much he still loved me. 1476.071 1478.903 ... And he doesn't know what to do about this whole sit[uation]. 1478.370 1479.774 CAM: [How could he] really love you though, 1479.774 1481.151 he doesn't know you that much. 1481.151 1482.056 LAJUAN: (H) He doesn't know me, 1482.056 1483.711 because in the last ten years, 1483.711 1485.982 (H) we talked to each other maybe once a month. 1485.982 1487.826 CAM: ... Well that's quite a bit though. 1487.826 1489.010 LAJUAN: And actually maybe not even that. 1489.010 1490.369 Sometimes it's every other month. 1490.369 1491.551 When he was traveling around the world, 1491.551 1493.402 (H) like he went to Germany for six weeks. 1493.402 1495.205 And he sent me his frequent flyer ticket. 1495.205 1496.721 .. (H) .. Cause he was there, 1496.721 1497.632 .. training to t- speak, 1497.632 1499.539 learning to speak German in a six-week course. 1499.539 1500.636 (H) And he sent [me], 1500.238 1500.636 CAM: [(THROAT)] 1500.636 1502.967 LAJUAN: .. a free- k- to- .. to come and spend a week with him, 1502.967 1503.960 and I said no. 1503.960 1505.048 (H) But at that time, 1505.048 1506.998 .. I would- been with ~Scott like four years, 1506.998 1507.886 and I was just like, 1507.886 1508.111 @(Hx) 1508.111 1509.308 .. I don't think so. 1509.308 1510.267 You're not gonna use me, 1510.267 1512.551 for your little sex thing for that (H) week, 1512.551 1513.411 and then that's it, 1513.411 1513.795 so, 1513.795 1515.746 ... (TSK) (H) I mean, 1515.746 1517.609 ... I st- I love him, 1517.609 1518.660 .. [I real]ly do but, 1517.906 1518.170 CAM: [

]. 1518.660 1519.141 LAJUAN: I don't -- 1519.141 1521.493 ... (H) I also don't trust him. 1521.493 1522.591 .. I don't think any man, 1522.591 1527.187 .. (H) who ... is as sexual as he w- .. is, 1527.187 1530.543 ... % and traveled as much as he did, 1530.543 1531.441 .. could stay, 1531.441 1532.335 .. celibate, 1532.335 1534.389 or- or stay t- t- committed to his wi=fe. 1534.389 1534.980 CAM: .. Right. 1534.980 1537.340 LAJUAN: .. I mean when y- I saw him once in Chicago, 1537.340 1539.017 ... I went to Chicago. 1539.017 1540.886 .. About .. four years ago? 1540.886 1541.751 .. Five years ago? 1541.751 1544.185 ... A=nd he was in Chicago, 1544.185 1545.424 in this hotel, 1545.424 1546.440 and he (H) said, 1546.440 1547.195 why don't you come and, 1547.195 1547.725 .. you know, 1547.725 1549.319 I='m free Saturday, 1549.319 1550.482 ... and Sunday. 1550.482 1551.058 Why don't you come. 1551.058 1551.626 And I said fine. 1551.626 1553.388 So I took the train to Chicago on Saturday, 1553.388 1555.328 .. (H) and I thought okay no big deal, 1555.328 1556.934 he'll have .. a room with two double beds. 1556.934 1558.603 .. No it was a king-size bed. 1558.603 1559.284 (H) So I thought, 1559.284 1559.622 okay, 1559.622 1560.001 no big deal, 1560.001 1561.019 I took a sleeping bag, 1561.019 1561.955 just in case. 1561.955 1562.690 (H) So, 1562.690 1563.346 here I am, 1563.346 1564.593 .. taking my sleeping bag, 1564.593 1565.649 I roll it out on the floor, 1565.649 1565.984 and he goes, 1565.984 1566.704 (H)= %(Hx) 1566.704 1567.612 well you don't have to worry, 1567.612 1568.886 you can share this bed with me, 1568.886 1569.932 I love ~Lauren, 1569.932 1570.631 ... and -- 1570.631 1571.659 No= I take that back. 1571.659 1573.193 .. (H) It was more than five years ago, 1573.193 1575.624 because he's been married to ~Lauren for six years this coming May, 1575.624 1576.470 ... no. 1576.470 1577.466 Seven years this coming May. 1577.466 1579.526 (H) So it was m=ore than six years ago because, 1579.526 1581.054 .. it was when he asked ~Lauren to marry him, 1581.054 1582.325 it was right around Christmas time. 1582.325 1584.094 (H) So it's been about six and a half years so, 1584.094 1585.370 (H) he asked ~Lauren to marry him, 1585.370 1586.835 (H) and he says I really love ~Lauren, 1586.835 1587.606 X I'm gonna marry her, 1587.606 1588.591 and blah blah blah this. 1588.591 1589.574 (H) So I get in the bed, 1589.574 1590.174 I thought fine, 1590.174 1590.753 no big deal. 1590.753 1592.320 .. I'm wearing my t-shirt and my underwear, 1592.320 1593.073 so I get in the bed, 1593.073 1595.051 ... (H) and in the morning I wake up, 1595.051 1596.019 .. and here he is, 1596.019 1597.910 ... fondling me. 1597.910 1600.253 ... (TSK) So I'm like, 1600.253 1600.884 okay, 1600.884 1601.336 so, 1601.336 1602.080 do you leave, 1602.080 1602.960 or what do you do. 1602.960 1603.603 ... You know, 1603.603 1604.131 so %, 1604.131 1605.014 .. I'm like ~Darren, 1605.014 1605.851 ... % he goes, 1605.851 1606.972 just don't say anything. 1606.972 1607.621 And I said ~Darren, 1607.621 1609.182 ... this isn't right, 1609.182 1610.840 .. you don't really want to be with me, 1610.840 1612.860 .. you just want .. the sexual part. 1612.860 1614.286 ... And I said that's all there is to it, 1614.286 1615.574 and I just can't do this. 1615.574 1618.232 ... And ... he accepted it, 1618.232 1619.275 and I I don't know= -- 1619.275 1620.461 ... He always, 1620.461 1621.577 and he'll always ask me, 1621.577 1622.597 (H) well how's ~Scott, 1622.597 1624.603 .. (H) how is your sex life with ~Sco=tt. 1624.603 1626.137 .. Are you happy with ~Scott, 1626.137 1626.799 .. you know, 1626.799 1628.074 do you still miss me. 1628.074 1629.056 .. (H) And I'm like, 1629.056 1631.026 .. well ~Darren I haven't told you I missed you in years. 1631.026 1632.083 What are you [talking about]. 1631.214 1632.552 CAM: [@(Hx)= @@@@@] 1632.552 1632.904 LAJUAN: You know, 1632.904 1633.605 @it's like, 1633.605 1634.350 k- excuse me. 1634.350 1635.518 [(H) .. %%] 1634.350 1635.819 CAM: [% Is he like full of himself] or what. 1635.819 1638.048 LAJUAN: ... (TSK) (H) And he's another one too. 1638.048 1638.260 CAM: (THROAT) 1638.260 1640.199 LAJUAN: He knows .. he's .. good-looking. 1640.199 1641.101 He he's another one. 1641.101 1642.298 .. When we were were in college, 1642.298 1642.696 he knew it. 1642.696 1643.326 CAM: .. Mm. 1643.326 1645.514 LAJUAN: .. And .. and what really gets me is th- % that, 1645.514 1646.929 ... (TSK) (H) I think, 1646.929 1648.864 .. the reason I always attra=cted, 1648.864 1650.510 like I attracted a lot of football players, 1650.510 1653.446 (H) is people always .. got the impression .. I was gay=. 1653.446 1654.408 .. (H) So, 1654.408 1655.583 if they knew you were gay=, 1655.583 1657.283 and they wanted some .. experience, 1657.283 1660.546 and they .. (H) they didn't want to approach another .. say man in your fra=t. 1660.546 1663.229 .. (H) .. And they kinda thou=ght you were gay=, 1663.229 1665.380 and nobody really wanted to (H) like say it, 1665.380 1666.778 .. they would approach me. 1666.778 1667.374 CAM: .. [Mm=]. 1667.026 1669.936 LAJUAN: [(H) So] I always got all the good-looking ones to always like, 1669.936 1671.128 .. come after me. 1671.128 1672.388 CAM: ..

. 1672.388 1673.734 LAJUAN: And that's how I ended up with ~Ron, 1673.734 1674.610 and how I ended up with ~Darren. 1674.610 1675.787 And I and I realize that, 1675.787 1677.217 (H) you know I always think well, 1677.217 1677.927 especially ~Ron. 1677.927 1679.225 I mean <% he= was just like %>, 1679.225 1679.712 .. oh, 1679.712 1680.756 .. just .. perfect. 1680.756 1681.765 Well ~Darren was too but, 1681.765 1682.626 (H) ~Darren, 1682.626 1685.384 (H) a lot of people don't like auburn hair or reddish brown hair. 1685.384 1686.863 They don't .. ca- care for it. 1686.863 1688.440 But ~Ron just is just a- -- 1688.440 1689.755 .. (H) just a beautiful man. 1689.755 1690.545 They both were but, 1690.545 1693.261 (H) I find that that's what happens in these fraternities. 1693.261 1696.166 Is you find a man who .. is curious about his sexuality. 1696.166 1698.683 .. (H) And if they find someone who they question, 1698.683 1699.479 .. okay, 1699.479 1700.914 is he gay or isn't he gay, 1700.914 1704.358 .. (H) then they will tend to .. go after you a little bit faster. 1704.358 1705.089 (H) So then you think, 1705.089 1707.192 okay you've seen some of these guys in the bars and you think, 1707.192 1709.903 ... (TSK) like I was out .. at the Triangle, 1709.903 1710.336 and I saw this guy, 1710.336 1711.468 he was so= good-looking, 1711.468 1711.759 I'm like, 1711.759 1712.196 CAM: (THROAT) 1712.196 1714.818 LAJUAN: (H) how the hell did he end up with that .. . 1714.818 1715.974 (H) And then I thought you know, 1715.974 1717.359 I betcha he's just out -- 1717.359 1718.319 And he was from Marquette, 1718.319 1720.392 (H) and he .. was just finding out, 1720.392 1721.619 and he met this guy=, 1721.619 1723.316 .. and that's why he was out with him. 1723.316 1724.274 CAM: Oh=[=], 1724.111 1724.507 LAJUAN: [You] know, 1724.507 1724.912 I mean, 1724.912 1725.598 CAM: [When was] this, 1724.912 1725.273 LAJUAN: [it-] -- 1725.598 1727.066 .. (TSK) (H) This was probab- -- 1727.066 1727.877 This was a while back. 1727.877 1728.305 This was -- 1728.305 1729.054 CAM: They young? 1729.054 1729.390 LAJUAN: .. Yeah. 1729.390 1729.929 [Well the w-] -- 1729.390 1729.929 CAM: [Oh]. 1729.929 1730.949 LAJUAN: (H) They were young. 1730.949 1732.439 (H) The one guy in particular was young. 1732.439 1733.562 The guy that was from Marquette. 1733.562 1734.089 CAM: .. [Mm]. 1733.822 1734.594 LAJUAN: [Was] probably, 1734.594 1734.913 I f- -- 1734.913 1738.024 I wouldn't think he would be more than ... twenty, 1738.024 1738.791 ... twenty-one, 1738.791 1739.199 I couldn't- -- 1739.199 1741.281 But he shouldn't have been in the Triangle if you want to know the truth. 1741.281 1743.649 ... So=, 1743.649 1744.255 .. but, 1744.255 1745.006 .. um=, 1745.006 1745.758 .. no=, 1745.758 1747.453 (H) he was just very ni=ce.