@UTF8
@Begin
@Languages:	eng
@Participants:	MONT MONTOYA Speaker, FRAN FRANK Speaker, MARI MARIA Speaker, RUBE RUBEN Speaker, LAUR LAURA Speaker, X X Speaker, RAMO RAMON Speaker, RACH RACHEL Speaker, CARO CAROLYN Speaker, MANY MANY Speaker, BEV BEV Speaker, GILB GILBERT Speaker
@Options:	CA, caps, bullets
@ID:	eng|SBCSAE|MONT|||||Speaker|||
@ID:	eng|SBCSAE|FRAN|||||Speaker|||
@ID:	eng|SBCSAE|MARI|||||Speaker|||
@ID:	eng|SBCSAE|RUBE|||||Speaker|||
@ID:	eng|SBCSAE|LAUR|||||Speaker|||
@ID:	eng|SBCSAE|X|||||Speaker|||
@ID:	eng|SBCSAE|RAMO|||||Speaker|||
@ID:	eng|SBCSAE|RACH|||||Speaker|||
@ID:	eng|SBCSAE|CARO|||||Speaker|||
@ID:	eng|SBCSAE|MANY|||||Speaker|||
@ID:	eng|SBCSAE|BEV|||||Speaker|||
@ID:	eng|SBCSAE|GILB|||||Speaker|||
@Media:	12, audio
@Comment:	American Democracy is Dying
@Comment:	University lecture, recorded in Riverside, California. This
	is a Chicano Studies class; the professor is the primary
	participant, although it is a small, summer school class, and nine
	members of the class occasionally interact.
*MONT:	What else . 0_2980
*MONT:	(..) Politics deals with the question of power . 2980_7460
*MONT:	right ? 7460_7860
*MONT:	(..) That's the introduction to empowerment . 8060_9760
*MONT:	(.) What is power . 9760_10710
*MONT:	(..) Very quickly 10710_11950
	come on 11950_12550
	(..) all of you should know these two concepts 12550_14770
	(.) they're not that difficult 14770_15950
	(..) What is power . 15950_17230
*MONT:	What are we talking about . 17230_18330
*FRAN:	(.) Having the capacity to impact public policy . 18330_20620
*MONT:	Alright . 20620_21180
*MONT:	&=in So if we're talking about politics 21180_22890
	politics is tied into the whole concept of power . 22890_25070
*MONT:	right ? 25070_25580
*MONT:	(..) And if we're talking about (.) empowerment as a concept 25580_28910
	&=in we must have an understanding of the notion of what is power . 28910_32010
*MONT:	&=in Now does (.) power come in one form 32010_34410
	does it come in many different forms . 34410_36160
*MARI:	(..) Different . 36160_36660
*MONT:	(..) Different forms . 36660_37810
*MONT:	(.) Back here . 37810_38610
*MONT:	(..) What forms . 38610_39750
*MONT:	(..) Give me examples of power . 39750_41830
*MONT:	(..) Either one of you . 41830_45270
*RUBE:	(..) &=laugh &=laugh ⌈ &=laugh ⌉ . 45270_45990
*LAUR:	                     ⌊ &=laugh ⌋ . 45630_46050
*RUBE:	(.) &=in Education 46050_47000
	(..) know⌈ledge . 47000_48510
*MONT:	         ⌊ Alright 48050_48620
	(.) knowledge ⌋ . 48620_49250
*RUBE:	knowledge ⌉ . 48580_49190
*RUBE:	MONTOYA (..) Okay 49240_50270
	(.) what else . 50270_50780
*LAUR:	(..) U:m . 50780_52230
*X:	&{l=WH Money &}l=WH . 52230_52830
*LAUR:	(..) u:m 52830_54430
	(..) your (.) position in the workforce ? 54430_58850
*LAUR:	(.) U:m . 58850_59170
*MONT:	Okay . 59170_60160
*LAUR:	&{l=X I'm trying to think of the word &}l=X . 60010_61030
*MONT:	Alright . 61030_61670
*MONT:	(..) Close . 61670_62270
*MONT:	Right . 62270_62670
*RAMO:	Wealth 62670_63230
	(.) num⌈bers ⌉ . 63230_64050
*MONT:	       ⌊ Wealth ⌋ . 63640_64200
*RAMO:	numbers of people . 64170_65120
*MONT:	Numbers of people . 65120_66050
*MONT:	(.) right ? 66050_66610
*MONT:	(..) What else . 66610_68320
*FRAN:	(..) Social status . 68320_70030
*MONT:	(.) Social status 70030_71200
	(.) position 71200_71860
	(.) right ? 71860_72530
*MONT:	&=in If you're the chairperson of u:m (.) a major corporation ? 72530_76280
*MONT:	(.) would you say that that person (..) has some power ? 76280_78680
*FRAN:	(..) Most definitely . 78680_80130
*MONT:	(.) Alright . 80130_80530
*MONT:	(.) Especially if you're &{l=X in uh &}l=X IBM 80530_82270
	or General Motors 82270_83080
	or (.) Chrysler ⌈ Corporation and ⌉ . 83080_85000
*RAMO:	                ⌊ I think in some ⌋ +/. 84440_85290
*RAMO:	(.) some t- +/. 85290_85890
*RAMO:	(.) some examples 85890_86710
	some 86710_87070
	(..) gender and race: 87070_88830
	(..) can give you power . 88830_90040
*MONT:	(..) Gender race 90040_92320
	alright . 92320_92900
*RAMO:	⌈ Gender ⌉ +... 92860_93340
*MONT:	⌊ Let's deal ⌋ with that . 92900_93670
*MONT:	(.) Alright . 93670_94130
*MONT:	(.) Gender race . 94130_94810
*MONT:	(.) Let's talk about &=in race 94810_96520
	(.) in terms of power . 96520_97440
*MONT:	(..) I:f I make the statement which I di:d 97440_100360
	(.) that there's no fear factor 100360_101480
	when it comes to: (.) the Chicano-Latino community 101480_103930
	&=in and there is much more of a fear factor 103930_106550
	(..) in dealing with the African-American community 106550_108730
	(..) &=in am I not dealing with a racial factor of power ? 108730_111310
*RAMO:	(.) ⌈ &{l=WH Yes: &}l=WH ⌉ . 111310_112160
*FRAN:	    ⌊ Sure ⌋ . 111560_112140
*MONT:	Why . 112160_112490
*FRAN:	(..) Because it's gonna affect 112490_116250
	(..) the decision making process 116250_117620
	(.) the politics 117620_118330
	&{l=X and um 118330_119080
	(..) ⌈ the policy &}l=X ⌉ . 119080_120080
*MONT:	     ⌊ Alright ⌋ . 119280_119850
*RAMO:	(.) Africa- +/. 120080_121580
*RAMO:	I:n u:m 121580_122550
	(.) i- +/. 122550_122960
*RAMO:	(.) Kinda like in pas:t 122960_124210
	(.) African-Americans have been more organized 124210_125870
	and have (..) had more leaders 125870_127830
	&=in (.) or not more leaders 127830_129390
	but who have more leaders who've been kn:own 129390_131260
	or ⌈ something . 131260_131760
*MONT:	   ⌊ More recognized . 131360_132390
*RAMO:	like Martin Luther King . 131760_132550
*MONT:	(.) That's right ⌋ . 132390_133110
*RAMO:	Yeah 132550_132710
	more rec⌉ognized 132710_133480
	and . 133480_133730
*MONT:	(..) ⌈ Alright ⌉ . 133730_134230
*RAMO:	     ⌊ I think ⌋ that's a fear factor . 133980_135380
*RAMO:	⌈2 XX ⌉2 . 135380_135990
*MONT:	⌊2 That is ⌋2 a part of the fear factor . 135380_137040
*RAMO:	(.) ⌈3 Mhm ⌉3 . 137040_137500
*MONT:	    ⌊3 &=in ⌋3 I mean uh 137040_138240
	if (.) one looks at what 138240_139900
	uh 139900_140220
	Jesse Jackson is doing 140220_141560
	vis a vis &=in (.) who . 141560_143430
*MONT:	(..) The major league ? 143430_144360
*MONT:	(..) Baseball teams and all that ? 144360_145970
*MONT:	(.) Football: and all that ? 145970_147000
*MONT:	(.) &=in What's his underlying argument . 147000_148730
*MONT:	(.) What's his criticism . 148730_149740
*MONT:	(..) That there're not (..) sufficient numbers of: (.) what ? 149740_154380
*FRAN:	(..) Blacks . 154380_155780
*MONT:	(.) Well he says minorities . 155780_156920
*MONT:	(.) He's smart . 156920_157380
*MONT:	He's talks about minorities . 157380_158490
*MONT:	But he's really talking about African-Americans . 158490_160000
*FRAN:	(..) In the uh 160000_161130
	(.) managerial process ⌈ of ⌉ . 161130_162470
*MONT:	                       ⌊ Right ⌋ . 162150_162480
*FRAN:	(.) of (.) professional sports . 162470_163490
*MONT:	Exactly . 163490_164190
*MONT:	(..) Managerial 164190_165070
	(..) owners 165070_165790
	(..) managers 165790_166610
	et cetera . 166610_167030
*MONT:	right ? 167030_167390
*MONT:	(.) Alright . 167390_168570
*MONT:	&=ex Have you heard &{l=X of a Latino &}l=X say this ? 168570_170290
*MONT:	(..) Or would a XXX Jesse Jackson have said that about Latinos ? 170290_173230
*MONT:	(..) Hm ? 173230_175620
*MONT:	(..) No . 175620_176140
*MONT:	(..) &{l=X Unh-unh &}l=X . 176140_178600
*MONT:	We haven't . 178600_179030
*MONT:	(.) And uh we're gonna get into that 179030_180030
	(.) in our discussion . 180030_180910
*MONT:	(.) Alright . 180910_181280
*MONT:	&=in So 181280_181890
	(.) the whole notion of power is very important (..) to understand 181890_185310
	because 185310_185810
	here I am making some statements . 185810_187860
*MONT:	Alright ? 187860_188330
*MONT:	(..) Some generalities that some people would say are not true: . 188330_191410
*MONT:	I mean how can &=in Doctor Montoya say that Latinos have no: 191410_194540
	no real power 194540_195480
	no fear factor 195480_196200
	After all 196200_196870
	&=in they have two people that are cabinet members 196870_199380
	(.) they have &=in supervisor here in Los Angeles 199380_202120
	they have city council people in Los Angeles 202120_204230
	and yet he's saying that they have no power . 204230_206320
*MONT:	(.) &=in Well power is relative (..) as well . 206320_209450
*MONT:	right ? 209450_209800
*MONT:	(.) It's relative . 209800_210400
*MONT:	It's relational . 210400_211380
*MONT:	(..) Power is relational . 211380_213050
*MONT:	(..) How can you measure power . 213050_214920
*MONT:	(..) Power is impossible to measure . 214920_217990
*MONT:	(..) Alright ? 217990_218520
*MONT:	(.) In other words 218520_219420
	you cannot break power apart into vi- +/. 219420_221510
*MONT:	&=in various ingredients 221510_223140
	(.) and say 223140_224140
	(..) A 224140_224750
	(..) B 224750_225310
	(..) C 225310_225990
	(..) D 225990_226330
	these are the ingredients of power . 226330_227680
*MONT:	&=in (.) We can make generalities . 227680_229540
*MONT:	(..) Position . 229540_231200
*MONT:	(..) Wealth . 231200_231890
*MONT:	(..) All these different things that I've talked about . 231910_233520
*MONT:	&=in But power is difficult to measure . 233520_235960
*MONT:	(..) So that 235960_237100
	(.) we must deal with the whole question of empowerment 237100_239650
	(..) from also the perspective of potential power &=in versus actual power . 239650_245010
*MONT:	(..) There is a difference . 245010_246710
*MONT:	(..) If I am 246710_248370
	(..) for example 248370_249710
	(..) the president &=in (.) of (.) a major labor union 249710_253830
	(.) or a major corporation . 253830_255320
*MONT:	(..) the position 255320_257290
	(.) &=in as president of that entity 257290_259140
	(..) gives me so much power . 259140_260850
*MONT:	(..) But yet if I do not know how to utili:ze 260850_265270
	(..) that entity in terms of its mobilization 265270_267550
	&=in (.) for a given objective 267720_269280
	(.) like a labor union . 269280_270300
*MONT:	(.) If I have fourteen million people as members 270300_272380
	&=in and I don't show any manifestation of power 272380_274720
	am I powerful . 274720_275600
*MONT:	(..) Well 275600_277000
	(.) it has to be measured by what (..) you're trying to do . 277000_279860
*MONT:	what the objectives are . 279860_281210
*MONT:	(..) Example . 281210_283490
*MONT:	(..) L:abor today 283490_285260
	is being challenged by perhaps one of the most (..) serious (..) pieces (..) of +/. 285260_292300
*MONT:	(..) not legislation per se 292300_294100
	because it's not in a legislative form yet 294100_295780
	&=in but 295780_296500
	(.) a proposed North American Free Trade Agreement 296500_299290
	(..) that if passed by Congress 299290_301580
	(.) is going to impact (..) three economies . 301580_304960
*MONT:	(..) Canada 304960_305540
	(.) U_S 305540_306060
	(.) and Mexico . 306060_306810
*MONT:	(..) &=in L:abor 306810_308080
	as a sector 308080_309190
	(..) is going to be the most (.) impacted . 309190_311530
*MONT:	(..) How is labor today (..) mobilizing (.) its great power . 311530_318240
*MONT:	(..) Uh not just the AFL-CIO and its fourteen million members 318240_321730
	&=in but the United Auto Workers 321730_323650
	(.) and many other or- (.) labor organizations 323650_325470
	(.) what are they doing . 325470_326190
*MONT:	(.) to influence (.) public (.) policy . 326190_328430
*FRAN:	(..) Combining power . 328430_329990
*MONT:	(..) Huh ? 329990_330640
*FRAN:	(.) They're combining their power . 330570_331730
*MONT:	(.) How are they combining their power . 331730_333020
*FRAN:	(.) By al- allying with other 333020_334520
	(.) um 334520_335400
	(..) &=tsk unions ⌈ &{l=X of workers &}l=X ⌉ . 335400_337090
*MONT:	                  ⌊ Alright 336140_336520
	they're they're they're ⌋ forming coalitions 336520_338490
	(.) among themselves 338570_339430
	they're forming coalitions with who . 339430_340800
*MONT:	Environmental groups . 340800_341880
*MONT:	right ? 341880_342370
*MONT:	(..) Cause (.) environment supposedly is going to be also negatively impacted . 342370_346640
*MONT:	(..) especially along the border . 346640_348150
*MONT:	(..) Alright 348190_349070
	(.) so there's- 349070_349470
	(.) there's a lot of coalition building . 349470_351070
*MONT:	(..) But can you say as a historian 351070_353620
	(..) that labor is doing what they were infamous for doing thirty forty years ago ? 353620_357220
*MONT:	(.) Taking ⌈ to the ⌉ streets ? 357220_358250
*FRAN:	           ⌊ No ⌋ . 357430_357830
*FRAN:	No they've definitely lost power . 358250_359400
*MONT:	(..) Alright 359400_360280
	(.) good point . 360280_360930
*MONT:	(.) They have +/. 360930_361390
*MONT:	(.) He said 361390_362000
	(.) they have lost power . 362000_363300
*MONT:	&=in So your measurement (.) of a loss of power is based on what . 363300_366850
*FRAN:	(..) What they can and can't X⌈XX ⌉ . 366850_369100
*MONT:	                              ⌊ Alright ⌋ . 368670_369220
*MONT:	(..) Alright . 369220_370250
*MONT:	(..) You don't see 370250_371360
	(..) what you've read about: . 371410_372440
*MONT:	(..) right ? 372640_372990
*FRAN:	(.) Right . 372990_373420
*MONT:	(.) today . 373420_373770
*MONT:	(.) Alright . 373770_374270
*MONT:	(.) That's one perception . 374270_375220
*MONT:	(..) Is the Black community less powerful today 375220_379840
	(.) in nineteen-ninety-three 379840_380890
	than it wa:s 380890_381820
	&=in (..) in nineteen (..) sixty (..) eight . 381820_385450
*MONT:	(..) with the poor people's march on Washington 385450_387890
	&=in (.) or nineteen-sixty-three 387890_389500
	(..) again 389500_390740
	(.) on the w- uh: march (.) uh to Washington 390740_393220
	(..) on Washington 393220_394560
	(.) when Martin Luther King gave his &=in (..) famous speech 394560_397390
	I have a dream . 397390_398230
*MONT:	(.) There were three hundred thousand people . 398230_400130
*MONT:	(..) at that march in nineteen-sixty-three . 400130_402140
*MONT:	(..) Which (..) period (.) of time 402140_406330
	historically speaking 406330_407380
	&=in (.) was a time where Blacks were manifesting much more power . 407380_410670
*MONT:	(..) Today 410670_413080
	(.) or nineteen-sixty-three 413080_413890
	or nineteen-sixty-eight . 413890_414730
*MONT:	(..) When . 414730_416240
*RACH:	&{l=X When they m- &}l=X manifest 416240_418100
	they're beginning to get more power ? 418100_419550
*MONT:	(.) ʔuh When uh 419550_420510
	in in comp- +/. 420510_421000
*MONT:	⌈ in in +... 421000_421300
*RACH:	⌊ Now ⌋ ? 421160_421570
*MONT:	When ⌉ do uh 421300_421920
	&{l=X make &}l=X a comparison nineteen-ninety-three 421920_423500
	&=in nineteen-sixty-eight 423500_424500
	(.) nineteen-sixty-three 424500_425420
	(..) during those three periods 425420_427490
	(.) when 427490_428050
	(.) would you say 428050_428920
	(.) Blacks (.) demonstrated (.) much more power . 428920_431200
*RACH:	(..) Now ? 431200_434000
*RACH:	(..) They have more power now . 434000_435430
*MONT:	(..) They have more power ? 435430_436300
*MONT:	(.) Why do you say that . 436300_437100
*RACH:	(..) Cause they're more recognized . 437100_439060
*RACH:	(..) &{l=X I mean &}l=X . 439060_440260
*MONT:	(..) &=in Does recognition give you power ? 440260_444330
*MONT:	(..) Hm ? 444330_447120
*X:	(..) &{l=P Yeah &}l=P . 447120_447970
*FRAN:	(..) To a- +/. 447970_449540
*FRAN:	(.) To some (..) aspects 449540_450840
	yeah . 450840_451130
*FRAN:	(..) I think 451130_452080
	(.) I think the +/. 452080_452650
*FRAN:	the problem with your question is 452650_453690
	s- a different sort of powers . 453690_455090
*MONT:	(..) Ah: . 455090_456390
*MONT:	Very good . 456390_457410
*MONT:	(.) Explain that . 457410_458090
*FRAN:	(..) You have uh 458090_459920
	(..) you have African-Americans more institutionalized 459920_462450
	(.) in ⌈ our ⌉ system now . 462450_463450
*MONT:	       ⌊ &{l=X Ah &}l=X ⌋ . 462620_462820
*FRAN:	(.) than they were in six⌈2ty-eight ⌉2 . 463450_464820
*MONT:	                         ⌊2 Alright ⌋2 . 464560_464880
*MONT:	Stop right there . 464880_465580
*MONT:	(..) Today 465580_466830
	(..) they have how many Congressmen ? 466830_468530
*MONT:	(..) Thirty (.) eight . 468530_470760
*MONT:	(..) Thirty (..) eight (..) congressional representatives . 470760_473900
*MONT:	(..) I don't know how many they had in nineteen-sixty-three 473900_477100
	I'm not even gonna try to guess 477100_478090
	but uh probably &=in no more than two or three if they were lucky . 478090_480940
*MONT:	(..) Alright . 480940_481800
*MONT:	(..) Would you say that ? 481800_482470
*FRAN:	(.) &{l=X I would say that's right &}l=X . 482470_483230
*MONT:	Alright . 483230_483650
*MONT:	(..) Go on . 483650_484600
*MONT:	(..) What else . 484650_485280
*FRAN:	(..) I:n sixty-eight 485280_486930
	(..) the Blacks were a whole lot more (.) mobile . 486940_489100
*FRAN:	(.) mobilized . 489100_489900
*FRAN:	(..) Much better mobilized 489900_491060
	(.) three-hundred-thousand marching on Washington 491160_493240
	(.) is an example . 493240_494090
*FRAN:	(..) You probably couldn't get that today . 494090_495480
*MONT:	Okay . 495480_496190
*MONT:	(..) Alright . 496190_497630
*RAMO:	(..) &=COUGH . 497630_499260
*MONT:	&{l=X You know with &}l=X Chicanos 499260_500160
	the highpoint of the mobilization capability was nineteen-seventy . 500160_503150
*MONT:	(.) During the: era of the Vietnam W:ar . 503150_505050
*MONT:	(.) Twenty-five-thousand Chicanos were mobilized in Los Angeles 505050_508510
	(..) ʔa- ʔat the national Chicano moratorium (.) against the war . 508510_511910
*MONT:	(..) No one . 511910_514100
*MONT:	(..) has come even close . 514100_515750
*MONT:	(..) With the exception of the death of Cesar Chavez recently 515750_518760
	&=in where there were approximately forty-thousand people 518760_521110
	(..) to mobilize . 521110_522880
*MONT:	(..) large numbers (.) of people 522880_525110
	into some kind of a (..) effort or movement . 525110_527650
*MONT:	(..) Alright . 527650_528610
*MONT:	(..) &=in So he's correct . 528610_530180
*MONT:	(..) It depends (.) on the time 530180_532580
	(.) depends on the circumstances 532580_534020
	&=in and the form of power . 534020_535440
*MONT:	&=in Institutionalized power is different from 535440_537960
	(..) the unconventional form that uh y- you just described . 537960_540790
*MONT:	Alright . 540790_541290
*MONT:	(.) &=in Well what we're trying to get at 541290_542660
	(.) is potential (.) versus (.) actual . 542660_544870
*MONT:	(..) My argument 544870_547370
	(..) as humble as it is 547370_548970
	(..) is that (.) Chicanos 548970_550820
	(..) in nineteen-ninety-three 550820_552080
	(.) are fast developing 552080_553890
	(..) a high: (.) potential for power 553890_556740
	(..) but they're a long way: from actualizing (.) their true power . 556740_560810
*MONT:	(..) Okay ? 560810_562990
*MONT:	In other words 562990_563510
	they're- we're still at the: (..) potential phase of our empowerment 563510_566750
	(.) and not at the actual power phase . 566750_568640
*MONT:	(..) Alright . 568640_570400
*MONT:	(.) Anything else ? 570400_571260
*MONT:	(.) On: those two concepts ? 571260_572530
*MONT:	(.) Alright . 572530_574170
*MONT:	(..) Let's get into: (.) discussion on voter participation 574170_577500
	and these are kind of general comments 577500_579400
	(..) I don't have the time to give you a lot of statistics 579400_582110
	(..) but I'll give you some: 582110_583520
	(..) general uh: (.) trends 583520_586610
	(.) some statistical information 586610_588140
	&=in that will prove a point 588140_589610
	&=in that will introduce the subject (..) of (.) political participation 589610_592920
	&=in in the United States . 592920_594280
*MONT:	(..) Now 594280_596470
	a democracy 596470_598960
	(..) the participation of the citizenry is imperative . 598960_603850
*MONT:	(..) It is (..) absolutely imperative 603850_607460
	(..) if it's to be a democracy 607460_608980
	to have the people participate . 608980_610470
*MONT:	&=in Now what am I trying to say . 610470_612740
*MONT:	(..) What am I trying to say . 612740_614340
*MONT:	(..) It is (.) imperative for the people to participate 614340_619290
	(..) in the political process . 619290_621660
*MONT:	(.) Another way of saying it . 621660_622610
*MONT:	(.) What am I saying . 622610_623340
*CARO:	(..) We have to vote 623340_629280
	(..) &{l=X everyone &}l=X . 629280_630320
*MONT:	(..) But why is it important 630320_632890
	(..) in a democracy for the people to participate . 632890_635360
*MONT:	(..) Just deal with the question . 635360_637520
*MONT:	(..) Not the methods . 637520_638940
*CARO:	(.) &{l=X You mean &}l=X becaus:e (.) if: (..) the people don't v:ote 638940_643100
	(.) it will be: 643100_644090
	(..) there will be an elite group 644090_646630
	it'll be (.) m:ore of a (.) m:onarchy 646630_648670
	(..) that has control 648670_650760
	(..) ⌈ it won't be ⌉ a democracy . 650760_652310
*MONT:	     ⌊ Okay ⌋ 651270_651600
	what's a monarchy . 652310_653270
*RUBE:	(..) ⌊ Kings ⌋ . 653270_654600
*FRAN:	     ⌊ One ruler ⌋ . 654030_654600
*CARO:	(..) Well ⌈2 one ⌉2 +... 654600_655440
*RUBE:	          ⌊2 Royalty ⌋2 . 655170_655880
*MONT:	(..) What ? 655940_656600
*FRAN:	⌈ One ruler ⌉ . 656600_657840
*RUBE:	⌊ Royalty ⌋ 656910_657680
	(..) ⌈2 or one family ⌉2 . 657830_658700
*CARO:	     ⌊2 XXXX ⌋2 . 657680_659320
*MONT:	(.) Alright . 659320_659930
*MONT:	(..) Close . 659930_660790
*MONT:	(..) There's a royal (.) type of family right 660790_663900
	(..) ⌈ king ⌉ . 663900_664490
*CARO:	     ⌊ Yeah ⌋ . 663900_664560
*MONT:	(..) not elected 664560_665810
	(.) alright 665810_666480
	(..) hereditary 666480_667900
	et cetera et cetera 667900_668680
	(.) alright . 668680_669120
*MONT:	(..) But what am I getting at . 669120_670540
*MONT:	(..) ʔW- what's the: essence of what I'm asking for ? 670540_672770
*MONT:	(..) Yes . 672770_673420
*MONT:	(.) Fire away . 673420_674340
*RUBE:	(..) By: (..) its very nature 674340_676640
	(.) democracy demands (..) voting . 676640_679020
*RUBE:	Without vo⌈ting XX ⌉ +... 679020_680090
*MONT:	          ⌊ Ah ⌋ . 679610_679960
*MONT:	(.) Stop right there . 679960_680670
*MONT:	(.) You made a statement . 680670_681350
*MONT:	By the very nature of democracy . 681350_683490
*MONT:	(.) &=in What is a democracy . 683490_685850
*RUBE:	(..) Democracy is rule by the people . 685850_688050
*MONT:	(..) Alright . 688050_688640
*MONT:	(.) &=in &{l=L2 Demos (..) cratos &}l=L2 . 688640_690240
*MONT:	right ? 690240_690590
*MONT:	(..) ⌈ People ⌉ (..) rule . 690590_692110
*RUBE:	     ⌊ XX ⌋ ? 690830_691800
*MONT:	Another Greek word . 692110_692970
*MONT:	(.) The Greeks were (.) major contributors to this political process of development 692970_698400
	(.) of concepts . 698400_699260
*MONT:	&{l=L2 Demos (..) cratos &}l=L2 . 699260_701090
*MONT:	People (..) govern 701090_702430
	or people rule . 702430_703340
*MONT:	(.) Alright . 703340_703910
*MONT:	(..) We tell the world 703910_706170
	(..) that democracy (..) is what (.) we practice . 706170_710980
*MONT:	Is that correct ? 710980_711840
*MONT:	(.) Is that what we tell the world ? 711840_713930
*MANY:	(..) Yeah . 713930_714650
*MONT:	Yes ? 714650_714990
*MONT:	(.) Alright . 714990_715600
*MONT:	Would you agree &{l=X with that &}l=X ? 715600_716150
*MONT:	(.) Okay . 716150_716670
*MONT:	(.) What else do we say 716670_718390
	selling (..) our political system . 718390_721130
*MONT:	(..) &=in In selling our political system 721130_724080
	(..) we make it synonymous 724080_726280
	(..) synonymous (.) by saying: that 726280_730550
	(.) we don't distinguish 730600_731790
	(..) the form of economic system 731790_734100
	(..) versus the political system 734100_735930
	&=in and that we put it in the same kettle . 735930_737790
*MONT:	(.) &=in Democracy 737790_739150
	(..) and capitalism 739150_740410
	(..) are essentially the same . 740410_741840
*MONT:	(..) Are they the same . 741840_743270
*FRAN:	(..) No . 743270_743840
*MONT:	(.) No . 743840_744410
*MONT:	(..) But yet we do . 744410_745540
*MONT:	(.) &=in A:nd 745540_747050
	(.) if we: (.) listen carefully 747050_748810
	(.) and read carefully 748810_750150
	(..) a:ll these books on international relations 750150_752950
	(..) foreign relations and so forth 752950_755160
	(..) what is it that we tell the world 755160_757430
	(.) that America is . 757430_758620
*MONT:	(..) The cradle (.) of democracy . 758620_761180
*MONT:	(..) We are the cradle of democracy 761180_763700
	&=in we are the bastion of the free world 763700_766270
	(..) et cetera et cetera et cetera . 766270_768320
*MONT:	(.) And when &=in Ronald Reagan was in power 768320_771190
	(..) we talked about the evil empire . 771190_773240
*MONT:	right ? 773240_773630
*MONT:	(.) &=in Categorizing 773630_775440
	(..) uh: 775440_776060
	the Soviet Union 776060_777070
	(..) and the so-called Communist empire 777070_779470
	as a evil empire . 779470_780710
*MONT:	(..) Alright . 780710_782040
*MONT:	(..) I say this because 782040_784280
	&=in (.) there is 784280_785720
	(.) a tendency for some of us to: believe 785720_788480
	because 788480_789090
	(.) we have been conditioned . 789090_790110
*MONT:	right ? 790110_790800
*MONT:	(..) Who conditions us to think the way we think . 790800_792810
*MONT:	(.) What did we deci- +/. 792810_793410
*MONT:	(.) What did we say . 793410_793980
*MONT:	(.) earlier . 793980_794550
*MONT:	(..) talking about culture . 794550_795840
*RACH:	(..) Um 795840_798210
	(.) they learn through (.) schools 798210_799770
	(.) ⌈ &{l=X through their families &}l=X ⌉ . 799770_800880
*MONT:	    ⌊ Schools . 799770_800310
*MONT:	right ⌋ ? 800310_801020
*MONT:	(..) Schools . 801020_801740
*MONT:	(..) The media . 801740_802400
*MONT:	(.) Everything else . 802400_803260
*MONT:	(.) &=in (.) I mean 803260_804030
	(.) doesn't the media tell us that there's only a two-party system in this country ? 804030_807020
*FRAN:	(.) Mhm . 807020_807920
*FRAN:	(.) Mhm . 807020_807920
*FRAN:	Why is it 807920_808670
	(.) that the Communist Party 808670_809800
	the Socialist Workers Party 809800_811020
	the Prohibitionist Party 811020_812100
	the American Independent Party 812100_813540
	&=in (..) all these parties that we have 813540_815930
	(..) supposedly minority parties 815930_817420
	(..) don't get the same kind of treatment 817420_820210
	(..) as the Democratic and Republican parties . 820210_822760
*FRAN:	(..) They're not mainstream . 822760_824500
*FRAN:	right ? 824500_824840
*FRAN:	(..) We have a two-party system . 824840_826600
*FRAN:	&=in We are taught from the very beginning that there's only two parties . 826600_830060
*FRAN:	(.) That's a l- different subject . 830060_832980
*FRAN:	(.) But I'm +/. 832980_833220
*FRAN:	(.) What I'm +/. 833220_833460
*FRAN:	The point I'm trying to make is that 833460_835400
	(.) if we look (..) into the realities 835400_838040
	(.) of what we have as a political system 838040_840410
	(..) we tell the world 840410_842570
	that in this country democracy is very much alive 842570_845190
	because we ha:ve 845190_846150
	a congress 846150_846870
	we have 846870_847440
	&=in a supreme court 847440_848530
	(.) we have a presidency 848530_849710
	&=in we have a political system: 849710_851410
	that i:s 851410_852440
	(..) governed by certain principles 852440_854790
	(.) and law:s 854790_855850
	&=in that emanate from what . 855850_857280
*FRAN:	(..) The Constitution . 857280_858740
*FRAN:	(..) which is a living document . 858740_860450
*FRAN:	The Constitution . 860450_861410
*FRAN:	right ? 861410_861850
*FRAN:	&=in That is very much the document that protects 861850_864320
	&=in conceptually and otherwise 864320_866110
	(..) our way of life . 866110_867540
*FRAN:	(.) Our democracy and so forth . 867540_869250
*FRAN:	(..) Well 869250_869870
	(..) if we remember (.) our Chicano history 869870_873010
	(..) my point 873010_874190
	as we get into the whole question of Chicano political participation 874190_877480
	ʔis that 877480_878250
	&=in (..) it's difficult 878250_880540
	(.) for us as Chicanos 880540_882220
	(.) as we get into it 882220_883430
	(..) to understand 883430_885440
	(..) why is it 885440_887360
	(.) including ourselves 887360_888420
	(.) because a lot of Chicanos don't even understand why we don't vote 888420_890930
	(.) why don't we participate 890930_892160
	(.) and they come up with all kinds of &=in somewhat superficial analysis 892160_895270
	(..) that 895270_897070
	(.) m:uch of our political behavior 897070_899480
	(..) is a product of what (..) was covered in this class 899480_903080
	(.) under history 903080_904070
	&=in and culture 904070_904880
	and what did I say . 904880_905760
*FRAN:	(..) Two . 905760_907230
*FRAN:	(..) major currents 907230_908640
	(..) of history 908640_909900
	(..) two (.) major currents of political culture 909900_913240
	(..) right ? 913240_913900
*FRAN:	And what is political culture . 913900_915330
*FRAN:	(..) I'll get back to that concept . 915330_916880
*FRAN:	But just (.) general terms . 916880_917910
*FRAN:	(.) What is political culture . 917910_919340
*FRAN:	(..) What is political culture . 919340_927600
*FRAN:	(..) Alright . 927600_929990
*FRAN:	(.) I want you to think +/. 929990_930890
*FRAN:	Put that concept down 930890_931830
	(.) because you're gonna +/. 931830_932270
*FRAN:	you're gonna hear about it in the next few minutes . 932270_933830
*FRAN:	(.) It's very important that you understand that concept . 933830_935400
*FRAN:	Political culture . 935400_936170
*FRAN:	&=in But I want +/. 936170_937200
*FRAN:	(.) Thing I want to underline here 937200_939180
	(.) is that 939180_939730
	(.) we are products 939730_940900
	&=in of a historical 940900_942690
	(..) dualistic process 942690_944410
	(..) Mexico's history 944410_945950
	US history 945950_946870
	&=in we're a pr- +/. 946870_947700
*FRAN:	we're products of what ? 947700_949040
*FRAN:	(..) A cultural process 949040_950730
	that's also Mexican 950730_952040
	(..) and American . 952040_952950
*FRAN:	(..) Whatever American means . 952950_954060
*FRAN:	Alright ? 954060_954480
*FRAN:	(..) So those two major (.) ingredients 954480_957400
	&=in have molded 957400_958560
	the rationale 958560_959730
	(..) that I'm using in this class 959730_961530
	(.) to explain 961530_962590
	(..) why is it 962590_963730
	(..) that we're still 963730_964870
	(..) at the potential phase of empowerment 964870_967070
	(..) and we still 967070_968360
	(..) have a long ways to go 968360_969910
	(..) before we realize 969910_971450
	(.) that concept that I describe 971450_973060
	(..) called empowerment . 973060_974320
*FRAN:	(..) &=in But before we get into that s- (.) substance of that 974320_978230
	&=in is that 978230_979290
	(..) I wanna just briefly cover 979290_981650
	(..) that 981650_983220
	(..) even though 983220_985780
	(.) I'm saying that 985780_987120
	(..) Chicanos do not vote in great numbers . 987120_989310
*FRAN:	(..) And we don't participate in many organizations in great numbers . 989310_992450
*FRAN:	&=in The fact is 992450_994090
	(..) as I mentioned earlier 994090_995570
	(..) that even though we tell the world 995570_998210
	(.) we are this beacon of light 998210_999810
	(..) of freedom 999810_1001270
	(..) of liberty 1001270_1003010
	(.) justice 1003010_1003580
	and all these different things 1003580_1004810
	&=in by and large 1004810_1006250
	(..) not (..) a lot of people (.) participate (.) politically (.) across the board . 1006250_1013970
*FRAN:	(..) I don't care if you're African-American 1013970_1016170
	(..) I don't care if you're Asian-American 1016170_1018320
	(..) and I don't care if you're Latino 1018320_1019660
	or whatever . 1019660_1020630
*FRAN:	(..) Most Americans 1020630_1022190
	(..) do not vote 1022190_1023630
	(..) in great numbers . 1023630_1025170
*FRAN:	(..) So 1025170_1026360
	(.) it's a double whammy . 1026360_1027590
*FRAN:	(..) Introducing the subject matter here . 1027590_1029500
*FRAN:	(..) Americans 1029500_1031060
	in comparison to Great Britain 1031060_1032890
	(.) in comparison to France 1032890_1034420
	&=in in comparison to Germany 1034420_1036150
	(.) in comparison to Italy 1036150_1037780
	(..) we don't vote 1037780_1038920
	(.) in the numbers that they do . 1038920_1040420
*FRAN:	(..) Alright ? 1040420_1041970
*FRAN:	(.) I mean 1041970_1042770
	if we had more time 1042770_1043710
	I could give you statistic after statistic 1043710_1045710
	&=in Italy for example 1045710_1047120
	ha:s (..) a voter (.) turnout 1047120_1049600
	(..) of ninety percent . 1049600_1052130
*FRAN:	(..) Of those that are eligible to vote . 1052130_1054820
*FRAN:	(..) we're lucky if we get fifty percent . 1054820_1057210
*FRAN:	(..) Are we (.) less democratic ? 1057210_1060320
*FRAN:	(..) Are they more democratic ? 1060320_1061750
*FRAN:	(..) Why is it that Italy has 1061750_1063950
	&=in a much larger 1063950_1065190
	(.) a higher voter (.) level of participation . 1065190_1067880
*FRAN:	(..) Or Germany . 1067880_1070000
*FRAN:	(..) Or even Canada . 1070000_1071540
*FRAN:	(.) Seventy percent . 1071540_1072500
*FRAN:	(..) The fact is 1072500_1074340
	that democracy in this country (..) is dying . 1074340_1077430
*FRAN:	(..) I want you to put that down . 1077430_1080760
*FRAN:	(..) Cause it's gonna be important . 1080760_1082270
*FRAN:	(..) At least for my analysis . 1082270_1083310
*FRAN:	I don't want you to agree 1083310_1084110
	or disagree at this point 1084110_1085100
	just write it down 1085100_1086010
	(.) &=in you have plenty of time . 1086010_1086960
*FRAN:	(.) One week to think about it . 1086960_1088210
*FRAN:	(..) American democracy is dying . 1088210_1092010
*FRAN:	(..) I want you to put that (..) who:le (.) phrase (.) in black and white . 1092010_1097780
*FRAN:	&=in American democracy is dying 1097780_1100690
	(..) and I want you to try to think (.) of why . 1100690_1104120
*FRAN:	(.) As we get into the discussion (.) of Chicano (..) participation . 1104120_1107750
*FRAN:	(..) And we'll get back to that statement (.) next week . 1107750_1110290
*FRAN:	(..) So 1110290_1112160
	(..) for us 1112160_1113120
	as Chicanos it's a double jeopardy . 1113120_1114730
*FRAN:	(..) That's another point I wanna underscore . 1114730_1116730
*FRAN:	(..) Because if the (.) larger general population doesn't vote in great numbers 1116730_1121480
	&=in when you're at the bottom of a political socioeconomic totem pole 1121480_1124980
	and you're at the bottom 1124980_1126440
	(..) you're at the very bottom 1126440_1128820
	(..) with all the problems of poverty 1128820_1131790
	and all the social problems that we're +/. 1131790_1133310
*FRAN:	&=in we've been talking about 1133310_1134690
	(..) it's understandable why 1134690_1137720
	(..) perhaps 1137720_1138390
	(..) Chicanos do not vote 1138390_1140930
	(.) or participate in great numbers . 1140930_1142590
*FRAN:	(..) &=in Now 1142590_1143750
	(.) the literature 1143750_1144600
	(.) in political science 1144600_1147690
	(..) dealing with 1147690_1149250
	(..) factors influence- +/. 1149250_1151180
*FRAN:	(..) influencing voting 1151180_1152480
	(..) are many . 1152480_1153440
*FRAN:	(..) Are many . 1153440_1156020
*FRAN:	(..) Civic Culture 1156020_1160280
	(..) Almond and Verba 1160280_1161440
	(..) nineteen-seventy-two or so 1161440_1163250
	(..) is one book that you can look at 1163250_1165320
	(..) u:m 1165320_1166640
	(..) there's a book by (.) Raymond Wolfinger 1166640_1169890
	(..) Steven (..) Ronsteen- (.) Ronstone I'm sorry 1169890_1172280
	&=in Who Votes 1172280_1173340
	(..) that's another book 1173340_1174430
	(..) &{l=X Okay &}l=X 1174430_1175770
	(..) the literature goes on and on . 1175770_1177070
*FRAN:	(..) But all I want to do 1177070_1178470
	in terms of just giving you (.) some idea . 1178470_1180840
*FRAN:	(..) of what are the factors that influence 1180840_1183330
	peoples' participation in the political process of this country . 1183330_1186200
*FRAN:	&=in And there are essentially five . 1186200_1187910
*FRAN:	(.) You can (.) probably develop more 1187910_1189510
	but 1189510_1189750
	(.) these are general categories . 1189750_1191180
*FRAN:	(..) Most of the literature in political science 1191180_1194570
	(..) and I think Mister Verba would agree with me on this 1194570_1196750
	&=in that 1196750_1197470
	(..) people tend to vote because they have a sense of duty . 1197470_1201600
*FRAN:	(..) What does that mean . 1201600_1202380
*FRAN:	(.) A sense of duty . 1202380_1203560
*FRAN:	(..) They regard participation as important . 1203560_1207310
*FRAN:	(..) Now 1207310_1209990
	(..) why would you say 1209990_1211920
	(.) that this (.) is a factor that influences voting . 1211920_1214780
*FRAN:	(..) Now this is a very somewhat altruistic 1214780_1217470
	(..) uh: value . 1217470_1218580
*FRAN:	right ? 1218580_1219020
*FRAN:	(..) A sense of (.) duty ? 1219020_1220730
*FRAN:	(..) Why . 1220730_1223890
*FRAN:	(..) Why would you say 1223890_1226120
	(..) that people in this country have a +/. 1226120_1227790
*FRAN:	(.) Some ⌈ people that vote ⌉ . 1227890_1229010
*X:	         ⌊ &=COUGH &=COUGH ⌋ . 1228220_1229010
*MONT:	(.) vote because they have a s:ense (.) of (.) duty . 1229010_1231650
*MONT:	(..) Why . 1231650_1234010
*MONT:	(..) Right here . 1234010_1237240
*BEV:	(..) I don't know 1237240_1240360
	(.) probably it stems m:ostly from: 1240360_1242470
	(..) your education 1242470_1243880
	your childhood 1243880_1244600
	when your told 1244600_1245310
	ʔuh (..) you're an American citizen 1245310_1246920
	and it's your civic duty 1246920_1248350
	(.) you know 1248350_1249210
	&=in towards other people a:nd 1249210_1250640
	you know 1250640_1251090
	getting the government going 1251090_1252250
	(.) to vote 1252250_1253010
	a:nd 1253010_1253650
	put you:r two cents in . 1253650_1255180
*BEV:	(..) Because without you: 1255180_1256520
	(.) then y- we won't have government . 1256520_1258120
*BEV:	(..) Same sense of jury duty 1258120_1259610
	too . 1259610_1260020
*BEV:	(.) ⌈ &{l=X Jury ⌉ +... 1260020_1260860
*MONT:	    ⌊ Okay ⌋ . 1260240_1260860
*MONT:	(..) Good point . 1260860_1261520
*BEV:	duty &}l=X . 1261520_1262190
*MONT:	(.) As we go through some of these 1261940_1263680
	(..) these five 1263680_1264590
	(..) I want you to think of ʔthe agents of socialization . 1264590_1267130
*MONT:	(..) Because then I want you to think 1267130_1268370
	when we get into the discussion on Chicanos 1268370_1270160
	(..) how do those agents affect (.) us as Chicanos . 1270160_1272270
*MONT:	Alright 1272270_1272660
	(..) number one 1272660_1274180
	sense of duty 1274180_1275040
	(..) Who is responsible for inculcating (..) that sense of duty . 1275040_1278180
*MONT:	(..) One 1278180_1280630
	(..) the family . 1280630_1281490
*MONT:	(..) Alright ? 1281490_1282360
*MONT:	(.) Remember . 1282360_1282830
*MONT:	(.) The family is your primary agent . 1282830_1284530
*MONT:	(.) Two 1284530_1285200
	(..) the educational institutions . 1285200_1286840
*MONT:	(..) I mean 1286840_1288690
	from the time that you start (.) kindergarten 1288690_1290400
	to the time that you (.) graduate from the university 1290400_1292840
	&=in it's constant 1292840_1293800
	(.) not constant 1293800_1294460
	(.) but somewhat of a consistent (.) bombardment (.) of values 1294460_1297700
	(.) attitudes 1297700_1298570
	et cetera 1298570_1299340
	(..) reinforcing the nature of the political system 1299340_1301830
	(..) and the virtues (.) of (..) participating in the political process . 1301830_1306110
*MONT:	(..) &=in So in essence 1306110_1307310
	what I'm saying is 1307310_1307930
	you acquire this through the socialization process . 1307930_1310230
*MONT:	that we've discussed already . 1310230_1311370
*MONT:	(..) Yes ? 1311370_1311940
*RUBE:	(..) I think that it's more (..) eye-opening 1311940_1316540
	(.) to see 1316540_1317400
	(.) that 1317400_1318610
	(.) this doesn't exist 1318610_1319850
	(..) more than it does . 1319850_1320930
*RUBE:	(.) And that's why people don't vote . 1320930_1322630
*RUBE:	&=in It seems that 1322630_1323670
	(.) I mean you talk to people 1323670_1325170
	&=in they have an attitude 1325170_1326710
	(.) I can't make a difference . 1326710_1328260
*RUBE:	(..) That's why I don't vote . 1328260_1329470
*RUBE:	(.) It's not (..) my (.) responsibility . 1329470_1332190
*RUBE:	That's why I don't vote . 1332190_1333420
*RUBE:	(..) There's not a sense of duty . 1333420_1334820
*RUBE:	(.) Even though 1334820_1335680
	(..) like you said 1335680_1336520
	(..) from the beginning 1336520_1337660
	(..) supposedly we're getting it (.) all through school . 1337660_1340230
*MONT:	Why do you suppose that has changed . 1340230_1341830
*MONT:	(..) And this is a (.) much 1341830_1343130
	(..) of a recent phenomena . 1343130_1344310
*MONT:	(.) much more . 1344310_1344970
*MONT:	&=in Because you've had 1344970_1346060
	&=in (.) declining voter participation levels: 1346060_1348270
	since: the nineteen-seventies . 1348270_1350200
*MONT:	(.) And I'm giving you the answer . 1350200_1351550
*MONT:	(..) Wa- what what what has been the problem . 1351550_1354020
*MONT:	(..) Contributing to what you (.) just said . 1354020_1356310
*RAMO:	(..) Well 1356310_1358290
	I agree- +/. 1358290_1358750
*RAMO:	I agree with what he was saying but 1358750_1359880
	(.) I think m- maybe one of the reasons could be 1359880_1361740
	(.) they're not being represented 1361740_1362870
	they don't think they're being represented 1362870_1364180
	(.) they don't 1364180_1364640
	(..) um 1364640_1365310
	(..) see any like (.) direct results for them 1365310_1367980
	(..) you know 1367980_1368640
	coming out of like . 1368640_1369330
*MONT:	Mhm ? 1369330_1369620
*RAMO:	the representation 1369620_1370490
	(.) the government 1370490_1371150
	(.) and who's in control . 1371150_1372480
*MONT:	(..) ⌈ Okay ⌉ ? 1372480_1373580
*RAMO:	     ⌊ I think ⌋ I +/. 1373430_1373820
*RAMO:	⌈2 I n- +... 1373820_1374080
*MONT:	⌊2 &{l=X That's ⌋2 +... 1373850_1374270
*RAMO:	You know ⌉2 1374080_1374400
	there are a ⌈3 lot of people ⌉3 . 1374400_1375010
*MONT:	            ⌊3 Sure &}l=X ⌋3 1374600_1374870
	(..) ⌈4 alright ⌉4 . 1376010_1376840
*RAMO:	     ⌊4 &{l=X &{l=% I mean &}l=% &}l=X ⌋4 +... 1376170_1376750
*MONT:	(..) That's +/. 1376840_1377100
*MONT:	(.) ⌈ Would you agree with that ⌉ ? 1377100_1377810
*RAMO:	    ⌊ A lot of people ⌋ . 1377250_1377890
*MARI:	(..) Mhm . 1377890_1378360
*RAMO:	(.) they vote their ⌈ pocketbook ⌉ . 1378360_1379540
*MARI:	                    ⌊ Sure ⌋ . 1378850_1379320
*RAMO:	(.) They +/. 1379540_1379800
*RAMO:	(.) They're +/. 1379800_1380160
*RAMO:	⌈ &{l=P They vote their pocketbook &}l=P ⌉ . 1379980_1381190
*MONT:	⌊ ʔuh They vote definitely ⌋ their pocketbook . 1380380_1381690
*MONT:	Alright ? 1381690_1382080
*MONT:	(.) That's true . 1382080_1382540
*MONT:	(..) What would you add to ⌈ f- ⌉ . 1382540_1383540
*RAMO:	                           ⌊ &=ex ⌋ . 1383330_1384070
*MARI:	(..) Well 1384070_1384940
	(..) you say we're not represented 1384940_1386450
	it's like 1386450_1386770
	we say there's not much choice 1386770_1388080
	(.) between 1388080_1388650
	(..) say like (.) the last 1388650_1390160
	(..) um 1390160_1390930
	(..) you know 1390930_1392280
	(..) &{l=X you &}l=X voted for (..) Clinton or 1392280_1394150
	(..) you know 1394150_1394810
	(..) you know 1394810_1395570
	(..) whatever his name was . 1395570_1396300
*X:	(.) &=laugh &=laugh . 1396300_1396720
*X:	&=laugh . 1396720_1397010
*MARI:	&=laugh &=laugh . 1397010_1397300
*MONT:	Bush . 1397300_1397740
*MARI:	⌈ &=laugh &=laugh ⌉ . 1397720_1398380
*GILB:	⌊ XX ⌋ . 1397590_1398380
*MARI:	⌈2 Yeah ⌉2 . 1398380_1398920
*MONT:	⌊2 Bush ⌋2 in a ⌈3 bush ⌉3 . 1398520_1399210
*X:	                ⌊3 &=laugh &=laugh ⌋3 . 1398860_1399200
*GILB:	X . 1399200_1399500
*MARI:	(.) ⌈ No . 1399500_1399900
*GILB:	    ⌊ I don't think ⌋ +... 1399650_1400290
*MARI:	the other guy ⌉ . 1399900_1400400
*GILB:	(.) I don't think ⌈2 there's as ⌉2 much ⌈3 trust ⌉3 . 1400400_1402140
*MONT:	                  ⌊2 Oh ⌋2 1401170_1401560
	                                      ⌊3 Perot ⌋3 . 1401660_1402250
*GILB:	(.) XX . 1402250_1402980
*MONT:	Trust . 1402980_1403570
*GILB:	Trust in the system . 1403570_1404390
*MONT:	(.) ⌈ Why ⌉ . 1404390_1404760
*GILB:	    ⌊ A lot ⌋ more corruption 1404520_1405460
	⌈2 &{l=X I mean &}l=X ⌉2 you had Nixon . 1405460_1406490
*MONT:	⌊2 Why ⌋2 . 1405470_1405760
*GILB:	&=in to ⌈3 Watergate ⌉3 . 1406490_1407750
*MONT:	        ⌊3 What did you have in the ⌋3 seventies . 1407120_1408120
*MONT:	(.) Now l- let's talk about that . 1408120_1409100
*MONT:	What what did +/. 1409100_1409440
*MONT:	What did +/. 1409440_1409720
*MONT:	⌈ What did ⌉ we have . 1409720_1410360
*GILB:	⌊ Okay ⌋ . 1409690_1410030
*MONT:	(.) &{l=X You &}l=X +... 1410360_1410540
*GILB:	Well 1410540_1410830
	(.) in the beginning 1410830_1411470
	(.) well even in the late sixties you had Vietnam 1411470_1413480
	(..) ⌈ you had uh: ⌉ . 1413480_1414920
*MONT:	     ⌊ Good . 1413900_1414490
*MONT:	(.) Excellent ⌋ . 1414490_1414970
*MONT:	&=in What did Vietnam do . 1414970_1416000
*GILB:	(..) ʔuh (..) Turned uh 1416000_1419630
	(..) the youth especially 1419630_1420820
	against (.) the government policies 1420820_1422550
	(.) the: educated youth . 1422550_1423640
*GILB:	(..) More so 1423640_1424500
	&=in and those were 1424500_1425440
	(.) I think 1425440_1426200
	(..) the people that were gonna be voting 1426200_1428240
	(..) as they went on . 1428240_1429520
*GILB:	They lost faith in the system . 1429520_1430630
*GILB:	⌈ They lost ⌉ faith in thei:r leaders . 1430630_1432180
*MONT:	⌊ Alright ⌋ . 1430650_1431140
*MONT:	(.) Alright . 1432180_1432800
*MONT:	(..) On that score . 1432800_1434340
*MONT:	(..) would you say that most of you 1434340_1436230
	without getting personal here 1436230_1437370
	are products: 1437370_1438340
	(.) uh: 1438340_1438610
	in terms of birth 1438610_1439600
	(..) of the sixties ? 1439600_1440190
*MONT:	(..) All of you were born in the sixties ? 1440190_1441660
*MONT:	(..) Early seventies ? 1441660_1442520
*MONT:	(..) Right ? 1442520_1443680
*MONT:	(..) So that means that most of your parents . 1443680_1445850
*X:	(..) &=THROAT . 1445850_1446520
*MONT:	were very much a part (.) of the era of the sixties . 1446520_1448600
*MONT:	right ? 1448600_1448890
*MONT:	(..) Alright . 1448890_1450070
*MONT:	Would you say 1450070_1450930
	(..) go back to you 1450930_1451760
	(..) that your parents were very much influenced by the Vietnam war ? 1451760_1454890
*MONT:	(..) One way or the other ? 1454890_1455800
*GILB:	(..) Yeah . 1455800_1458180
*MONT:	(..) Which +/. 1458180_1458990
*MONT:	(.) Which way . 1458990_1459450
*MONT:	(.) ⌈ Which direction ⌉ . 1459450_1460260
*GILB:	    ⌊ Um: ⌋ 1459550_1459940
	(..) total apathy . 1460260_1461420
*MONT:	(..) Total apa⌈thy ⌉ . 1461420_1462580
*GILB:	              ⌊ Yeah ⌋ . 1462150_1462590
*MONT:	(.) Why . 1462590_1462960
*GILB:	(.) Um 1462960_1463530
	(.) well my mom . 1463530_1464470
*GILB:	(.) Total apathy . 1464470_1465180
*GILB:	Uh 1465180_1465520
	(..) She just 1465520_1468330
	(.) I th- +/. 1468330_1468820
*GILB:	(.) I don't know . 1468820_1469080
*GILB:	(.) I think she just got burned out . 1469080_1470270
*GILB:	She got sick and tired of 1470270_1471380
	(..) you know 1471380_1472090
	turning on the news 1472090_1472730
	and seeing another (..) corrupt man 1472730_1474240
	or another 1474240_1474910
	(.) you know . 1474910_1475370
*GILB:	(.) another scandal breaking out . 1475370_1476800
*GILB:	(..) She knew friends that were dying in Viet- +/. 1476800_1479310
*GILB:	(.) you know . 1479310_1479570
*GILB:	She had friends that (..) were drafted 1479570_1481420
	XX were sent 1481420_1481980
	(.) were dying 1481980_1482540
	and she didn't 1482540_1483200
	(..) you know 1483200_1483950
	she didn't believe in the system and 1483950_1485460
	(..) she just didn't care anymore . 1485460_1487370
*GILB:	(..) ⌈ I think ⌉ it was just a lot of negatives had built up . 1487370_1490230
*MONT:	     ⌊ Okay ⌋ . 1488700_1489140
*GILB:	and she just (..) let it go . 1490230_1492030
*MONT:	(..) Okay 1492030_1492650
	how about you . 1492650_1493360
*MONT:	(..) How about your parents . 1493360_1494390
*CARO:	(..) U:m 1494390_1495510
	(..) well my dad was drafted . 1495510_1497420
*MONT:	(.) He was in Vietnam ? 1497420_1498850
*CARO:	(..) U:m 1498850_1499920
	(..) long story 1499920_1501030
	he didn't make it to Vietnam but 1501030_1502130
	u:m 1502130_1502420
	&=laugh ⌈ &=in ⌉ . 1502420_1503150
*MONT:	        ⌊ But he was ⌋ in the military ⌈2 during that time . 1503150_1504660
*CARO:	                                       ⌊2 He was in the military at the ⌋2 time . 1503900_1505400
*MONT:	(.) Alright ⌉2 . 1504590_1504960
*CARO:	(.) yeah . 1505400_1505790
*MONT:	Okay . 1505790_1506080
*CARO:	(.) My mom claims she was too young to know 1506080_1507840
	but 1507840_1508280
	(..) &=laugh &=laugh &=laugh &=in &{l=@ I don't know &}l=@ . 1508280_1509970
*MONT:	Okay . 1509970_1510560
*CARO:	(..) Um 1510560_1512980
	(..) I don't know how my dad r:eally felt about it 1512980_1516790
	(.) I know: 1516790_1517650
	(.) we come from a long line of military men 1517650_1519810
	(.) so he kind of felt a sense of duty 1519810_1521870
	(..) so 1521870_1522440
	(..) ʔuh (.) um . 1522440_1524550
*MONT:	(..) Was there a sense of betrayal ? 1524550_1526750
*CARO:	(..) Possibly 1526750_1532740
	yeah . 1532740_1533030
*MONT:	Mhm . 1533030_1533520
*CARO:	X . 1533520_1533810
*MONT:	Okay . 1533810_1534200
*MONT:	(..) Who else . 1534200_1535540
*MONT:	(.) Who wants +/. 1535540_1535910
*MONT:	Who else wants to share something here 1535910_1537260
	(.) about what we're trying to say . 1537260_1538260
@End
